Self-interest September 2006

self-interest@lists.selflanguage.org

5 participants
6 discussions

Re: [self-interest] xcode problems installing Klein
by Adam Spitz 01 Oct '06

01 Oct '06

I'm not sure what to tell you about the .xcodeproj file. I don't know much about Mac OS "bundles." On my machine (a Powerbook running Mac OS 10.4.7), when I download the Klein distribution from the website and double-click it to unzip it, I can find the klein_C_code.xcodeproj file and it shows up correctly (as a single bundle, not a directory). Alex suggested that the problem might have something to do with different versions of Xcode. We've been using Xcode 2.3. I don't know whether that's likely to make a difference or not. Is your Macintosh PowerPC-based or Intel-based? I'd be happy to send you my kleinDebugServer executable, but I've only got a PowerPC version. In any case, though, you shouldn't need the debug server just to browse through the sources. At what point during the file-in process do you run into errors? (What does the console output look like?) The postFileIn for the vmKits module tries to run Klein's automated test suite (which requires the debug server to be working), but by the time you get to that point, all the Klein source code has been filed in. Assuming you've gotten to that point, you should be able to browse through the sources (maybe after closing the existing Self world and opening a new one) with no trouble. Adam On 9/29/06, Jecel Assumpcao Jr <jecel(a)merlintec.com> wrote: > > This is a bit off topic, but yesterday I was trying to install Klein 0.1 > into a Self 4.3 image on a Mac running MacOS X 10.4 but was unable to > follow this simple instruction: > > - Use Apple's XCode to open up the klein_C_code.xcodeproj file in the > klein_C_code/xcode/klein_C_code directory. > > One problem is that I have a directory with that name, not a file. Given > the "bundles" stuff in MacOS X (where a directory can mascarade as a > file some of the time) I figured that this might be normal, but trying > to open this from Xcode 2.0 has no effect at all. Inside the directory I > see three files: project.pbxproj, ungar.mode1 and ungar.pbxuser > > Clicking on the first or the third opens up Xcode but with no project > open. And trying to open these files from Xcode also has no effect. By > that I mean everything is exactly as before and there are no error > messages at all. > > Since when loading Klein into Self it runs a lot of stuff and then > crashes due to the missing debugServer I didn't get very far. I am not > actually planning to run Klein but just to browse through the sources > (which I could do in any text editor loading the .self files directly, > but outliners are soooooooo much prettier!). > > -- Jecel >

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xcode problems installing Klein
by Jecel Assumpcao Jr 30 Sep '06

30 Sep '06

This is a bit off topic, but yesterday I was trying to install Klein 0.1 into a Self 4.3 image on a Mac running MacOS X 10.4 but was unable to follow this simple instruction: - Use Apple's XCode to open up the klein_C_code.xcodeproj file in the klein_C_code/xcode/klein_C_code directory. One problem is that I have a directory with that name, not a file. Given the "bundles" stuff in MacOS X (where a directory can mascarade as a file some of the time) I figured that this might be normal, but trying to open this from Xcode 2.0 has no effect at all. Inside the directory I see three files: project.pbxproj, ungar.mode1 and ungar.pbxuser Clicking on the first or the third opens up Xcode but with no project open. And trying to open these files from Xcode also has no effect. By that I mean everything is exactly as before and there are no error messages at all. Since when loading Klein into Self it runs a lot of stuff and then crashes due to the missing debugServer I didn't get very far. I am not actually planning to run Klein but just to browse through the sources (which I could do in any text editor loading the .self files directly, but outliners are soooooooo much prettier!). -- Jecel

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RE: [self-interest] Klein open-source release
by Jeff 29 Sep '06

29 Sep '06

I'm glad that Klein has been open sourced. There are many interesting ideas underpinning its design and I am anxious to see how far it has progressed since I last worked on it. That said I'm sorry to hear that you are out of work. I wish you all the very best. Jeff.

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UI3
by YAKOV 22 Sep '06

22 Sep '06

Hi, I'm trying to find out something on SELF's UI3 implementation but there's no results. Could you point me on papers or something 'bout it? Thanks in advance PS Was it like a Croquet nowadays?

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Self 4 mirror object
by ziakov 12 Sep '06

12 Sep '06

Hi, I'm learning Self. I'm very impressed by this lang. I'm looking for explanatory papers on language and environment 'cause Self source code for objects lack comments. Precisely, im interested in mirror object and API that it provides - i'm trying to implement xUnit infrastructure in Self With best regards,

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Klein open-source release
by Adam Spitz 01 Sep '06

01 Sep '06

We're pleased to announce that Sun has agreed to make the Klein Metacircular Virtual Machine Kit available to the public under an Open Source (BSD) license. Klein is a former Sun Labs research project intended to learn more about the construction of "metacircular" virtual machines (that is, VMs written in the same language that they implement). The artifact that we've produced is very much a work in progress, but it is intended to someday be a virtual machine for the Self language, written almost entirely in Self, and a development environment for that VM. You can download it from: http://research.sun.com/self/Klein/release.html The project is far from complete - there is a *lot* of work left to be done before Klein will be a usable VM. (It's very very slow, there's no garbage collector yet, it's not capable of running its own UI yet... see the release notes for more details.) This release isn't intended to be used as a practical VM; we're just hoping that it might be of interest to people who are interested in VM development. We're open-sourcing it now because there hasn't been much work done on Klein since late 2005, and it was looking like Sun had no further interest in funding it. (None of us is actually working for Sun anymore.) Still, a lot of functionality has been implemented so far, including a compiler (capable of producing slow-but-correct machine code for most Self code), an export system (capable of producing and incrementally-updating a Klein image containing a given list of Self modules), a reflection system (capable of reflecting on Klein objects, either from inside the Klein image itself or from a remote Self image), and a debugger (capable of source- and machine-level viewing of Klein objects and processes, including a partial implementation of fix-and-continue). See the release notes for more details about what Klein is, how to run it, what works and what doesn't. You can also see our OOPSLA 2005 paper, "Constructing a Metacircular Virtual Machine in an Exploratory Programming Environment," for a more thorough description of the principles behind Klein. We have no idea how much work will be done on Klein in the future. All three of us are currently looking for work. Maybe some of us will find some spare time to spend on Klein. If we're really lucky, maybe we'll be able to find a way to get paid for continuing the project - though we're not betting on it. If anyone out there is interested in working on Klein, we'd love to hear from you. Alex Ausch Adam Spitz David Ungar

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Self-interest September 2006