Self-interest January 1996

self-interest@lists.selflanguage.org

10 participants
18 discussions

Re: Latin-1 Caracters
by David.Ungar＠Eng.Sun.COM 23 Jan '96

23 Jan '96

How did it turn out? At 10:55 AM 12/1/95, Thierry Goubier wrote: >That probably sound stupid, but why is there a limit on printables >characters that forbid the user to enter a caracter with an accent (or >any composed character) ? If you change this limit to 255, all >accentuated characters work correctly. Or am I missing something ? > >The slot is lastPrintableCharacter in traits string, and it's standard >value is 127. I'll try to check if I break something by changing the >value. > >Thierry. >___________________Thierry.Goubier(a)enst-bretagne.fr__________________ > <Am I dreaming the dream, or is the dream dreaming me ?> > [Corwainer Smith] >http://www-info.enst-bretagne.fr/~goubier/ -- Dave

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Re: trace of Self changes
by David.Ungar＠Eng.Sun.COM 23 Jan '96

23 Jan '96

Interesting--what about input? Timing-dependencies? that sort of thing?? >While thinking about the consequences of my proposal to use shift-click >to get references to objects I got the idea that it would be useful >to write all changes to the Self world to a log file so you can later >use this information to create module information, return to earlier stages >by using only the part before some error occured, ... > >To do this you have to store all top messages send by the user to objects, >i.e. only that from an evaluator or triggered by a menu or a button, >not the resulting messages. > >For this you need the references to the receiver objects of all the top >messages. >Here you can use the global names of the well-known objects. >The problem is how to refer to not-well-known objects. >As you can only send messages to those not-well-known objects which are >visible >in your GUI you can maintain symbolic references to all those objects >e.g in an appropriate dictionary or in that one already used by the GUI system. >In order to be independent from the absolut value of the object reference you >have to use symbolic references in the log file. > >Every time you show an object (morph or arbitrary outliner) you register >under an unique symbolic reference >1) the message that led to this grafical appearance >2) the concrete object-reference(s) of the created morph object (and of >the object that >receives messages through this morph object in the case of an outliner). > >You have to distinguish between messages sent to the outliner >and messages sent to the object that the outliner stands for. >I think if you enlarge the functionality of the evaluator or other >GUI specific stuff that starts sending of messages to the object behind it >you get it very easy. > >When you dismiss the grafical object than you remove the object-references >of both outliner and reflectee and they may rest in peace if not longer needed. > >Pointer grabbing and argument picking (great word!) make no problems >because the referenced object are handled in absolute the same way as >the receiver objects. > > >Michael -- Dave

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Re: deadProxyError?
by David.Ungar＠Eng.Sun.COM 23 Jan '96

23 Jan '96

Cameron, How's it going? At 7:41 PM 11/6/95, Cameron Elliott wrote: >I am trying to write an HTTP server under Self, and am having a couple >of problems. > >First, the Self VM is receiving a SIGPIPE when my application tries >to write to a pipe that the other end has closed, and this >causes a stack dump, searching through the system it looks like >the Self world doesn't have to much of an interface to the unix >signals mechanism, so it looks like I'm going to have to issue a > >signal(SIGPIPE,DFL_IGN); > >or whatever the call is to ignore a signal, and then exec >the Snapshot with my http server. (This is fine) > >The problems I having are: >I keep getting deadProxyError, and I don't what this is. >After playing with my application a while I keep losing the ability >to connect to a well defined port. >(Somehow something is running somewhere in the Self VM which is >still holding onto the port.) >And when I 'start' my application again, I get a 'EADDRINUSE' error, >even though as far as I can tell, the unixFile is (dead). > >I don't have a clue what the solution to the deadProxyError is, >and it seems the key to fixing the EADDRINUSE problem is to find out >what is holding onto my well known port address, and release it. > >And hints, clues, or experience is invited. > >Thanks >Cameron Elliott -- Dave

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(no subject)
by dbn＠catia.dassault-systemes.fr 19 Jan '96

19 Jan '96

Could you remove me from the mailing list please? I won't be able to dedicate any time to self in the next few months. Thanks David

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Re: a whimsical question
by Arata Kubota 久保田新 19 Jan '96

19 Jan '96

Sorry for the vague asking. I will try to make it clearer. > > anObject _AddSlots: (| aSlot <- ??method?? |) ? > anObject _AddSlots: (| aSlot = ??method?? |) I liked to ask how to modify the method which is contained in a slot of an object. If it is contained in a constant slot, we may need to first remove it and add a slot of the same name with a new (different) method. Is this right? Is it no problem to do the above without using the outliner? (If my vague memory is correct, I sometimes failed to do that -- system crash.) > Note that this is an alternative form of reflection. Rather than sending > normal messages to a mirror on the object, we are sending a primitive > message to the object itself. This works because primitives have access > to the "underlying machinery" directly. The reason most Self source files > do this kind of thing is that it is a little faster than using mirrors I understand this, but > and also because mirrors aren't fully functional while the basic "world" > is being read in. would you kindly tell me any pointers to the above problem? > > Is this too much a reflective way? In so doing, I have some troubles in > > the updates of objects (in a recursive use of AddSlots).. > > > > anObject _AddSlots: (| aSlot <- ( anotherObject _AddSlots: ( anotherSlot <- ??anotherMethod |) ) |) > > What you did here (if you change the "<-"s to "="s) is to add a method to > "anObject" so that "anObject aSlot" will add "anotherSlot" to "anotherObject" > every time it is executed. That is a strange thing to do. Surely I think you feel it strange (my example is silly), but the point is that I like to modify the method in the slot. Doesn't Self allow us to put a method in a DATA slot? I like to execute different methods under the identical slot name.. Probably, there may be a much better way for it. > If you merely > what to create several objects nested in each other, you can do this: > > anObject _AddSlots: (| aSlot <- (| anotherSlot = ??anotherMethod?? |) |) > > In this case, however, "aSlot" is a data slot with an initial value, and > not a method. This would be an answer to what I liked to know. Is this side-effect free? How should I make the method executed? Where is that SLOT "anotherSlot" put? > Hmmm... I probably misunderstood what you are asking. Anyway, you can > create nested objects without having to use _AddSlots: at all. Would you kindly give me some good examples? Probably, it is strange or useless to modify the method in a slot of an object, but I am caught by it... Any help to a miserable, confused Self user? Thank you so much. a*

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list archive
by Jecel Assumpcao Jr 19 Jan '96

19 Jan '96

Hi, is this list working correctly? It seems so, but I was informed that it was "out of order". I was looking at the page with the archives for this list, and noticed that the first messages are from April, 1991. I have messages saved from this list dating from July, 1990 - is there any interest in them? Regards, -- Jecel

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Re: a whimsical question
by Arata Kubota 久保田新 18 Jan '96

18 Jan '96

> > What was the reason for choosing the name "mirror"? > > When a circleMorph sends a message to itself, it "sees" a circleMorph. This is > fine, most of the time. But what if you need to manipulate the object as > a bunch of slots instead? The answer is to create a special object (the mirror) > that lets us reflect on the internal structure of the original object. > So it is more of an X ray machine than a mirror, but I hope you get the > idea. Thank you for the explanation. I read the section "Behaviorism vs Reflection" of the Reference manual with interests. In the real (or conventional world) self and mirror might be different SYSTEMS... (multiprocessor etc?) BTW, what is the easiest or elegant way to add a slot, which contains a method, to an object without using the outliner? anObject _AddSlots: (| aSlot <- ??method?? |) ? Is this too much a reflective way? In so doing, I have some troubles in the updates of objects (in a recursive use of AddSlots).. anObject _AddSlots: (| aSlot <- ( anotherObject _AddSlots: ( anotherSlot <- ??anotherMethod |) ) |) (??method?? ??anotherMethod??= e.g. anObject copy etc.) A layman's question again. a*

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Re: a whimsical question
by Arata Kubota 久保田新 18 Jan '96

18 Jan '96

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a whimsical question
by Arata Kubota 久保田新 17 Jan '96

17 Jan '96

Is Spy of Self 4.0 written in Self? If not (probably not...), can it or similar utility be written in Self and how slow will it be? Can it be written in Self without making the system heavily loaded? -- just a whimsical question of a Self lover who is interested in the relationship between program execution monitoring and reflection a*

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Aha! How to view Self Sparc code
by Cameron Elliott 14 Jan '96

14 Jan '96

Alright, so no one answered my question on how to view the Sparc code under Self 4.0, so I had to figure out how to do it. :( Here is what I was able to grok from snooping around: To find the 'Nobjects' for a certain receiver, selector pair try: _FindNmethodsRcvr: 9 Selector: 'printString'. Where 9 is the receiver type where you wish to see the nmethod objects for, and the selector is 'printString'. Then from the output in the startup window, choose an NMethod object to view the code for, and issue this prim. 16rdeadbeef _PrintNMethodCode Where 16rdeadbeef is the address from the startup window of the actual NMethod object you want the code on. Cameron cam(a)elliott.net

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Self-interest January 1996