Self-interest October 1998

self-interest@lists.selflanguage.org

7 participants
10 discussions

JSelf Home Page
by Diego Gomez Deck 06 Nov '98

06 Nov '98

One very simple Home Page for the JSelf project has borned in http://www.ConsultAr.com/JSelf All of you are invited... (|diego. gomez. deck|) ----- Free e-mail group hosting at http://www.eGroups.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

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Self porting to Java VM
by Diego Gomez Deck 30 Oct '98

30 Oct '98

Hello, I started a Self implementation dependent of the Java VM. In a few days, will be a web site to visit. I'd like to known your opinion. TIA (|diego. gomez. deck|) ----- Free e-mail group hosting at http://www.eGroups.com/ ______________________________________________________________________ Setup your own FREE forum. You control access to your message board and chat room. Great for families, workgroups, special interests, businesses, alumni groups ... http://www.delphi.com/eg Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

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Self porting to Java VM
by Pablo J. E. Rodriguez 30 Oct '98

30 Oct '98

>Hello,I started a Self implementation dependent of the Java VM.In a few days, >will be a web site to visit.I'd like to known your opinion. > >TIA > >(|diego. gomez. deck|) Really? When will you think can run some code? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ZZZXXXZZZ Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

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How does the Self VM work?
by Douglas Atique 29 Oct '98

29 Oct '98

Hello, everyone. Let me introduce myself. I consider myself new to Self though I first heard about it in 1996. I got interested in its philosophy of simplicity and power, together with the prototypes which were a new concept to me. In fact, I have downloaded and printed most of the articles available on http://self.sunlabs.com/ but have not been able to grasp all the concepts and ideas present in these articles. Perhaps the problem was that I didn't have a SPARCstation on which to run Self. I thought it would be interesting to try to port the Self Virtual Machine to a more popular architecture, like PCs, but it is proving itself not very easy. As I am so stubborn, I have not given it all up yet, but set a new aim for myself: I intend to study the Self Virtual Machine and model it with the Booch'93 notation. If anyone wants to join this "expedition" into the Self source code, please do. You are supposed to be able to read C++ source code. Then you are supposed to download the sources and look at them! Note: I intend not to do it in a hurry, as I am rather busy with other subjects by now, and I intend to be looking at this list once a week (on Tuesdays). I appreciate comments on the structure of the Self VM (I know of at least Jecel who knows Self well enough to do that) and suggestions of recommended readings about it. I hope this makes everybody start talking. This list is so quiet... Regards to all, Douglas ----- Free e-mail group hosting at http://www.eGroups.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

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TinySelf
by Diego Gomez Deck 28 Oct '98

28 Oct '98

Where can I download the Linux version of TinySelf??? (|diego. gomez. deck|) ----- Free e-mail group hosting at http://www.eGroups.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

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Greetings everyone
by Gregory Burd 26 Oct '98

26 Oct '98

Greetings all, My name is Greg Burd, I work for Sun. I used to work in the JavaSoft division, now I write software to generate excitement in emerging markets. I have followed Self for years, I have videos on it, I have talked to the people who wrote it, I love it. I hated the day that Steve Jobs killed the Newton not only because it was a great technology, but also because it was inspired by Self to some degree. I have other reasons to dislike Steve, I used to work at NeXT Computer (note the "Computer" part, :) I have toyed with tinySelf (nice work) and I have started an implementation of the train GC algorithm to place under GNU GPL someday with all of the extra stuff that Java 1.2 has added to the complex world of GC. I have also toyed with various adaptive compilation ideas, no code there yet... just thought I would drop everyone a line, -greg ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

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self-introduction of the subscribers
by Albertina Lourenci 20 Oct '98

20 Oct '98

Hello all: I have just read Douglas's message. I do think it would be better if everybody introduces oneself. We would know about each one's interest in Self and have an idea about the possibility of the prototype to take off and prevail over the class world. Best wishes ` Albertina Lourenci I will defend my PhD thesis in architecture and urbanism on 10 November candidate to post-doctorate student af Laboratory for Integrated Systems USP ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

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memory size
by Jecel Assumpcao Jr 20 Oct '98

20 Oct '98

One of the main complaints I hear about Self is that it takes up too much memory (the other is that it only runs on Sparcs). Since I see people buying entry level machines with 64MB of RAM or more perhaps this isn't as much of an issue as it used to be. What follows is a comment on the implemenation details of Self and probably won't make any sense to someone who is unfamiliar with that. I was looking at a paper to be presented at Micro'98 by Karel Driesen and Urs Hoelzle (called "The Cascaded Predictor: Economical and Adaptive Branch Target Prediction") and found it interesting to note the parallels between their problems and the implementation of Self. One source of code bloat is excessive customization. When you generate dozens of copies of native code, all alike, you are wasting time as well as memory. In the same way, the UCSB guys noted that when you use two level branch prediction hardware (the moral equivalent of customization) you end up with many entries that are really all alike. They added a filter that tries to discriminate between branches that can be handled in one level (not customized) and those that get better results in two levels (customized). This allowed them to get by with two small memories (one for each case. Not really, but read their paper if you really need to know ;-) instead of one huge one. This reminded me of an idea I worked on last year. The idea is that compiled native code would be shared between different objects (not a problem with PICs as they do their type checks on the caller side, it but does require multiple headers for ICs). This would happen as long as all lookups for messages to self gave the same results (for the different objects). This would have to be tested recursively (any self messages must invoke native methods that are also shared). If this test fails, then a new (customized) native code must be generated for the current object, otherwise just a new header will be enough. I don't have any data on how much memory this would save, but hope to work on this soon. Anyway, avoiding another customized version of a method not only saves some space but replaces the compilation with just the lookups for implicit self messages. -- Jecel ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

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patches
by Jecel Assumpcao Jr 17 Oct '98

17 Oct '98

I am putting all the little patches I need to make Self 4.0 work right as modules in a special patches directory. So far I have: canvasPatches.self : fixes a 'gc not found' bug when Self tries to recover colors from the colormap. xlibPatch.self : the _XStoreBytesInto: primitive worked on older machines, but fails in SunOS 5.6 webPatch.self : the format of the GET command doesn't work with the Apache proxy server If there is any interest, I can put these in some directory where they can be downloaded. I was hoping to patch Self to work with more than 256 colors (which is really annoying), but that looks like a major rewrite instead. Another interesting thing to have would be the code mentioned in the "Oz" debugging article to avoid creating new worlds on the slightest crash of the UI. Here is a case where a decent exeption system would make things much easier. -- Jecel P.S.: sorry about the ads. I thought they would be shorter. Anyway, we will have to put up with them until egroups starts accepting credit cards :-( P.S.2: I was going to go to OOPSLA'98 but chickened out at the last moment. Will there be any kind of "Self get together" there this year? Otherwise just sneak in the Squeak crowd :-). Next year there will be a big Self BOF - count on it! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

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self use
by Jecel Assumpcao Jr 16 Oct '98

16 Oct '98

Welcome to the new self-interest mailing list! The question that I get most often about Self is: who is using it? I am (in fact, I just got myself a new Ultra 5 just for this) for a lot of different things. I used it to extract the emails of people who had posted to the other self-interest mailing lists since 1994, for example (much more fun than Perl!). And I am using it to develop tinySelf, which I hope to port to the PC in a couple of months. At the university of Sao Paulo I had two trainees with little previous programming experience who use Self for a whole year. That project is over now, but they built a simple 3D wireframe system and a Petri Net simulator. Albertina Lourenci is using Self in her architectural PhD thesis. Other people at LSI-USP (specially in the IC CAD group) are starting to get interested in Self. But I would really like to hear from anyone else who is still working with Self. -- Jecel Mattos de Assumpcao Jr -- mailto: jecel(a)lsi.usp.br http://www.lsi.usp.br/~jecel/merlin.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.

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Self-interest October 1998