Self-interest February 1997

self-interest@lists.selflanguage.org

13 participants
11 discussions

Re: Self FAQ?
by Sehyo Chang 19 Mar '97

19 Mar '97

Is there plan for port of Self to Windows NT machine? -- sehyo chang > >Self is currently limited to the Sparc machines, and the Sun pages >describe the only usable implementation. > >I think there is a nice FAQ in the pages at the Brown University >(see the related projects page at Sun). > >The implementation I am doing will run on Linux, but that is still >many months away. > >-- Jecel > > > -------------------- Sehyo Chang Virtual Enteprise Technology, inc. sehyo(a)netcom.com

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ECOOP Workshop on Prototype-Based Object-Oriented Programming
by James Noble 25 Feb '97

25 Feb '97

Call For Participation ECOOP' 97 Workshop #11 2nd ECOOP Workshop on Prototype-Based Object-Oriented Programming Monday 9 June Jyvaskyla, Finland http://www.mri.mq.edu.au/~kjx/proto97.html In recent years an alternative to the traditional class-based object-oriented language model has emerged. In this prototype-based paradigm there are no classes. Rather, new kinds of objects are formed more directly by composing concrete, fully-fledged objects, which are often referred to as prototypes. When compared to class-based languages, prototype-based languages are conceptually simpler, and have many other characteristics that make them appealing, especially for the development of evolving, exploratory and/or distributed software systems. The distinction between class-based and prototype-based systems reflects a long-lasting philosophical dispute concerning the representation of abstractions. Class-based languages such as Smalltalk, Java, and C++ explicitly use classes to represent similarity among collections of objects. Prototype-based systems such as Self, NewtonScript, Omega, and Obliq do not rely so much on advance categorisation and classification, but rather try to make the concepts in the problem domain as tangible and intuitive as possible. A typical argument in favour of prototypes is that people seem to be much better at dealing with specific examples first, then generalising from them, than they are at absorbing general abstract principles first and later applying them in particular cases. The prototype-based approach is not restricted to programming languages. When designing a system, does one think of the classes involved or the objects? Some design methods use class-centric language but are really talking about objects. For example, with CRC cards - is it really classes or objects which have responsibilities? Similarly, most design methods consider that classes have association and aggregation relationships between each other, but objects really have these relationships. It could be argued that some design methods are already partially prototype-based, but disguise this behind class-based terminology. Prototypes give rise to a broad spectrum of interesting technical, conceptual and philosophical issues. Different variations of prototype-based object-oriented programming exist, as discussed in recent conference papers and panel discussions and including workshops at ECOOP and OOPSLA. In this workshop we will examine the state-of-the-art in prototype-based object-oriented programming, focusing especially on the following questions: * What are the specific advantages or niches of the prototype-based paradigm which will make or break its widespread use? * How is the prototype-based paradigm simpler to understand and use than the traditional class-based paradigm? * What ultimately distinguishes prototype-based programming from class-based programming? Potential topics for discussion in the workshop include, but are not limited to: - models of prototype-based programming, - experiences in implementing and using prototype-based systems, - guidelines, idioms and patterns for programming with prototypes, - analysis and design techniques for prototype-based systems, - prototype-based user interfaces. - research directions for prototype-based programming. Potential workshop participants are requested to submit a short paper (2-5 pages) by April 14 to the address below (e-mail in PostScript or ASCII format is strongly preferred): James Noble MRI, School of MPCE Macquarie University Sydney NSW 2109 Australia Email: kjx(a)mri.mq.edu.au Courier: E6A330, Herring Road, North Ryde Participants reporting on experience are invited to indicate if they want to provide a short (< 15 min) demonstration or videotape to illustrate their report in the workshop. Attendance to the workshop will be limited to approximately 20 participants to enable fruitful discussion. Workshop Organisers: James Noble MRI, School of MPCE Macquarie University Sydney NSW 2109 Australia Tel. +61 2 9850 9530 Fax. +61 2 9850 9529 E-mail: kjx(a)mri.mq.edu.au Ivan Moore OTI UK Ltd 131 High Holborn London WC1V 6PS Tel. +44 171 440 9825 Fax. +44 171 440 9826 E-mail: Ivan_Moore(a)oti.com

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Self FAQ?
by john-clonts＠hlp.com 22 Feb '97

22 Feb '97

I'm new to this list :) Is there much activity with Self? I've only as yet been able to find the sun web pages... Does a port to Linux exist? Thanks, John

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Re: Sun buys Java compiler technology based upon Self!!!
by Randall.Smith＠Eng.Sun.COM 22 Feb '97

22 Feb '97

---------- X-Sun-Data-Type: text X-Sun-Data-Description: text X-Sun-Data-Name: text X-Sun-Charset: us-ascii X-Sun-Content-Lines: 62 > It's a peculiarity > of large companies that they often seem more able to recognize good > technology when they have to buy it than when they develop it in-house. :-) > Yes, people often complain of the "not invented here" syndrome in which outside projects are judged as worthless. Just as powerful though is the "invented here" syndrome -- judging local projects as worthless. (I made this name up, but others have noticed it. For a biblical reference, recall "A prophet is not recognized in his own country.") I believe the two effects do exist simultaneously. But this is not conflicting, as they have different ranges. (i.e.: what you mean by "here" is different in the two cases). The NIH syndrome has to do largely with personal acceptance of an idea ( "I did not build it so it is hard for me to understand/trust it.") The IH syndrome is more mysterious and has a range of "one's own country." I am often subconsciously surprised, when meeting a well-known individual for the first time, to find that he or she eats, drinks, burps, and occasionally says something dumb just like I do. In the invented here syndrome we devalue things made by people we model as creatures of the flesh, while we values things made by those we model as, say, abstract authors of journal articles. ProjectValue = NIH * eToThe( - x/10 ) + IH * ( 1 - eToThe( - x/100 ) ). x = distance in meters from you. NIH = 0.5 to 1.0 IH = 0.5 to 1.0 (See the attached GIFF for a graph. (Yes, those are Self morphs)) The first term values projects closer than about 10 meters (within one's own day-to-day working group). The second term values projects farther than 100 meters. (Beyond one's own company - people you rarely see in the flesh) The resulting curve has a dip near r=10. For large companies the 100 meter range is more like 1000, but even then the minimum only moves out to about 20 meters. So the bottom line is the two phenomena combine to give one effect. The "invented by a regular guy but I don't understand it" syndrome. Minimum at 10 to 20 meters. IBARGBIDUI I believe Self suffers in Sun from IBARGBIDUI. I am amazed you read this far! Probably because I am physically far away from you. --Randy ---------- X-Sun-Data-Type: gif-file X-Sun-Data-Description: gif-file X-Sun-Data-Name: temp.junk X-Sun-Encoding-Info: uuencode X-Sun-Content-Lines: 67 begin 600 temp.junk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a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Re: Sun buys Java compiler technology based upon Self!!!
by Guenter Kniesel 21 Feb '97

21 Feb '97

> From Randall.Smith(a)Eng.Sun.COM Thu Feb 20 20:37:03 1997 ... > So the bottom line is the two phenomena combine to give one effect. The > "invented by a regular guy but I don't understand it" syndrome. Minimum > at 10 to 20 meters. > > IBARGBIDUI > > I believe Self suffers in Sun from IBARGBIDUI. > > I am amazed you read this far! Probably because I am physically far away > from you. No. Just because you hit the nail on the head. IBARGBIDUI is an infectious disease - it's already everywhere... In a commercial company BWHTBAOOILTTBUTEIIBRG might be a cure (before we have to buy again our own inventions let's try to better understand things even if invented by regualar guys). Good luck, Guenter Kniesel

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Sun buys Java compiler technology based upon Self!!!
by keith＠uniteq.com 20 Feb '97

20 Feb '97

Sun has just announced that they are buying Animorphic Systems, which for the last 2+ years has been developing JIT compiler technology for Java and Smalltalk. And, guess what? It's based upon the Self project!!! Congratulations to the Self team. I always knew you had extremely hot compiler technology. Below is an outtake of Anamorphic's press release: Animorphic Systems Technology Preview: Performance! Animorphic Systems' new HotSpot(TM) virtual-machine technology for Smalltalk and Java(TM) represents the biggest commercial performance breakthrough ever for advanced object-oriented languages. Working in secret for over two years, Animorphic Systems has applied advanced research ideas, including those from Sun Microsystems' Self project, to produce performance increases of 3.5-5 for Smalltalk, and more than 2 for Java, compared to the best commercial compilers currently available. The HotSpot virtual machines will be made commercially available through a major vendor. Finally, you won't have to trade-off productivity for performance! Highlights Over 90% of dynamic message-sends are eliminated by an advanced inlining global optimizer. Programs are monitored invisibly as they run to detect performance-sensitive regions, which are immediately adaptively optimized or reoptimized on-the-fly based on how the program is used. Not only are the HotSpot virtual machines far faster than any other, their relative performance is actually better for higher-level (more reusable) code. This represents a major breakthrough in reusability: using HotSpot technology, there is no longer any incentive to avoid writing highly factored programs that extensively use fine-grain methods (accessor methods, etc.), Smalltalk blocks, and other structuring techniques that are expensive in existing systems. On a HotSpot virtual-machine, these techniques are essentially free! The first commercial non-disruptive garbage-collector (GC) for long-lived objects. No more GC pauses! HotSpot Databases can be used to record optimization information in a compact, portable form for repeatable performance across sessions. Strongtalk(TM), an industrial-strength type system for Smalltalk. Strongtalk can be used incrementally, as little or as much as you like, to make your Smalltalk programs easier to understand, test, and reorganize. Because Strongtalk is completely optional and independent of the virtual-machine, untyped and typed programs experience exactly the same performance. Native thread support and asynchronous DLL C call-out and call-in. To register for our mailing list, send email to info(a)animorphic.com Smalltalk Benchmarks ran on Pentium Pro 150MHz under Windows NT 4.0 using ParcPlace VisualWorks 2.0 and IBM Smalltalk 3.0a. Java Benchmarks ran on Pentium 90MHz under Windows NT 4.0 using Borland 5.0, Microsoft Internet Explorer 3.0 and the lastest and only implementation of Asymetrix. HotSpot(TM) and Strongtalk(TM) are trademarks of LongView Technologies L.L.C. and Animorphic Systems. Java(TM) is a trademark of Sun Microsystems, Inc. in the US and other countries. Copyright by LongView Technologies L.L.C. and Animorphic Systems, 1996. All rights reserved. P.S. Is the Animorphic team composed of the original Self team members, and is this why the Self project was halted?

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advising to implement project in SELF
by Albertina Lourenci 13 Feb '97

13 Feb '97

Dear Self Group: Having read the papers in your home pages, I made up my mind to implement my ecodesign model in SELF, I intend to generate architectural and structural design in a context of an urban ecosystem or the context of urban sustainable development. The submodel consists of a geometric modelling dealing with frieze groups, crystalographic groups, tilings. In Brazil the level of object oriented programming is very primitive. So I cannot find an adviser. Foundation of Protection to Research offers the possibility of going abroad for six months to implement the research. I can advance a full-fledged model at a postdoctoral level. I will be looking forward to your reply as soon as possible Cheers Albertina Lourenci Ph.D. student at Faculty of Architecture and Urbanism University of Sao Paulo - last year.

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tinySelf status 2
by Jecel Assumpcao Jr 08 Feb '97

08 Feb '97

One frustration that some people had with tinySelf is that they couldn't see what I was doing since I hadn't finished. So I will now make a new version available on the net every time I make any changes, no matter how raw it is. Unfortunately, I have an even larger frustration in store for potential tinySelf fans. I have stopped all work on the version in C for Linux and have started using Self 4.0 as a development system instead. Since most people wanted tinySelf because they had no access to Self, it may seem cruel that the first few versions will run exactly on Self! But this is just a temporary problem: as soon as the X86 compiler is ready, tinySelf will be "ported" to Linux (after that, it will also run in Win32 and directly on the hardware). One improvement over previous plans is that the Linux version will now always be supported instead of being abandoned once the native hardware (OS) version is released. The first version of tinySelf will be just a trivial scheduler to allow Self 4.0 to execute programs using tinySelf's parallelism model. Running some benchmarks on this will let us know just how compatible the two models really are. You can get a copy as http://www.lsi.usp.br/~jecel/ts1.self.gz To execute an expression you type tinySelf eval: '3 _IntAdd: 4' It only represents about two days' work, and at least two days more are needed until it actually runs things more interesting than the above. I will only be able to continue this next Thursday, however, as the local university will be closed due to Brazil's "Carnaval" festival. -- Jecel

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bugs
by Jecel Assumpcao Jr 07 Feb '97

07 Feb '97

It seems that "primitives primitiveList" has a problem with some of the longer primitive names. Some of the larger _CallAndConvert:With:And:With:... come out with a missing final colon. I finally got the web browser to work with our proxy server. I had to patch proxyLocater to generate an extra 'HTTP1.0\r\n' after the GET command. I don't know if other servers have different requirements. -- Jecel

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Enhancing The Use Of Targeted E-Mail!
by ritaok＠saveyourtime.com 04 Feb '97

04 Feb '97

While visiting your website, THE OBJECT-ORIENTED PAGE ... I assumed that you may be using regular mail or e-mail for promotional purposes. With our Comprehensive Business Lists of E-Mail Addresses, you can pre-qualify a large audience and communicate with it in an effective and economical way. Response rates to e-mail are often several times higher than those of other methods. At IncBase Digital Corp., we specialize in creating customized e-mail databases gathered from commercial websites specific to an industry, customer type, supplier or other target group on the Internet. Target groups can be selected by SIC codes or by general industry descriptions. Our proprietary technology can generate hundreds of sales leads. Each database record includes: - Website name, - URL, - Corporate e-mail; and - Website description If you are interested in receiving more information simply hit "reply" and type the word 'INFO' in the subject line. If we have caused any inconveinince by providing you with this information please except our appologies. Type "Remove" to ensure being removed from our list. Thank you for your time and consideration. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Greg Fenrick Sales Manager IncBase Digital Corp. phone: (604) 323-1906 fax: (604) 270-6088 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Self-interest February 1997