Self-interest February 2000

self-interest@lists.selflanguage.org

18 participants
11 discussions

Re: remote gui
by John Hinsley 29 Feb '00

29 Feb '00

Jecel wrote: Then I tried VisualBasic, but found that the > version I had didn't generate .EXE files so I would only be able to distribute > the program to those who already had VB. I've got a VB5 which allows me to build .exe files. I'm absolutely hopeless with VB (this is NOT false modesty!), but if you'd like to send me the source, I'll build you an .exe and send it back to you. But I can't help at all with the coding.

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Re: Self4Linux - Problem beim Linken
by Gordon F. Cichon 29 Feb '00

29 Feb '00

Michael Haupt wrote: > Beim Linken von Self4Linux bricht make mit folgender Fehlermeldung ab: > > Linking Self > /usr/i486-linux/bin/ld: cannot open -lg: No such file or directory > collect2: ld returned 1 exit status > lock_run failed on "sauerland" with status = 1. > > Liegt der Fehler bei mir? Fehlt eine Library? (Eine libg.so ist mir > nicht bekannt...) Hi Michael, libg.a is the debugging version of libc. When using it, you could theoretically step into library functions. If it is not available on your system, you may simply disable the "-lg" switch in file self/vm/templates/linux.make for the CLIBS variable setting. Gordon.

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Re: Self Hack Weekend in S.F.
by Thorsten Dittmar 28 Feb '00

28 Feb '00

> March 18th-19th would be OK for me. Is this also ok for you, Gordon?

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Re: remote GUI
by Jack Schwartz 28 Feb '00

28 Feb '00

Jecel - I have been following the self-interest theads occasionally. Your current challenge, I take it, is to provide a lightweight remote GUI front end to Self applications. I would suggest that you contact Passport Corporation in Paramus, NJ. They have developed a Java Remote Presentation Protocol that allows them to Web enable any application previously developed in their proprietary language (Passport). This protocol sends high-level commands (something like: "create_main_window,<myWinId>,2,4,500,600") to a remote Java windowing system (Swing). The remote GUI has a significant amount of intelligence allowing local events to be processed as automated GUI actions. For example, clicking on a folder tab will automatically cause the associated tab's content window to be brought to the front while the tab-control automatically repaint and redirects focus to the first sensitive object in the content window. There is much more to tell about this technology which was actually written up in some Hurwitz Publications and an IDC Application Development Tools Bulletin entitled "Examining the Internet, Enterprise Development, and IntRprise" [May 1997, IDC #13396 Vol: 1 Tab: Vendor Strategies]. Check it out. I think you'll be surprised. Jack H. Schwartz Chief Technical Officer VP, Software Development Skila Inc. 1200 MacArthur Blvd. Mahwah, NJ 07430 http://www.skila.com Jack(a)Skila.com -----Original Message----- From: Jecel Assumpcao Jr. [mailto:jecel@merlintec.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2000 4:54 PM To: self-interest(a)egroups.com Subject: [self-interest] Re: remote GUI Thanks to David N. Smith, Stefan Matthias Aust and John Hinsley for their feedback on the remote GUI problem. I'll lump all my comments here to save bandwidth. Berlin: it looks need, but I don't see that it will really be more lightweight than X. They claim to be inspired by NeWS, which is a good thing, but I don't see how they can send new functionality over to the server that wasn't there before (from what I know about Corba). In any case, this is for the future and I need something for the next few weeks... VNC at 128kbps: this obviously is a case of personal taste. But since I will be serving several clients over a single 33kbps link, it seems that this isn't a good choice for me. X in Java (http://wiredx.net): since the students would have to download a Java 2 plug-in and do a lot of configuration before using this, it really isn't an option (though it would be the least work for me since it would talk to Self as it is now). In fact, it is very likely that their PCs won't have enough resources in any case. Plus there is the 33kbps limitation I mentioned above. I guess I will have to make the clients way more intelligent so I can use a higher level protocol. Since the students will have to download something in any case, something in Squeak might be the right choice for this project. As long as I am lumping different stuff together, I might as well comment Stefan's observation here: > Compared with Self on Squeak, the Java version performs much better > -especially with HotSpot. It's still not comparable with the real Self system > I think, but the advantage is that I can easily script existing Java code. I > did a very small example with Swing. And I've to say that a lot of > Smalltalkers (and Self fan) here and on the Squeak list are biased. Java is > better than you think :-) The problem is that there are several different Javas out there. When I write a program in Java, I limit myself to what will work on the Java included in the old Netscape or Internet Explorer that the user might be using. So that colors my impression of the language. Of course I can get much better results by requiring that the user download Java 2 (like the wiredX people do) and that they only use IE on Win98 or later, but then what is the point? -- Jecel ------------------------------------------------------------------------ You can save up to $200 on your auto insurance at Esurance. Personalize your auto insurance so that you only pay for what you need. Call 1-800-926-6012 or go to http://click.egroups.com/1/1283/5/_/8257/_/951253747/ eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/self-interest/ http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

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Re: JSelf future
by vincent.coetzee＠rmb.co.za 25 Feb '00

25 Feb '00

Jecel wrote: >>I would >>expect better performance from Self on Smalltalk (which has been done about >>three times already...) I recently implemented Morphic (well not exactly, but something very very similar) in Java. I had to use a lot of dirty tricks to get the required performance, although I must admit that with Hotspot (how ironic, that so many ideas came from Self, and yet Self was displaced by Java) on NT it really flies. I would have grave misgivings about implementing Self on Java. BTW, when you say implementing Self on Java, do you mean Self in Java or Self on top of a Java VM ? Vincent

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JSelf future
by Diego Gomez Deck 19 Feb '00

19 Feb '00

I'm working more hours for day than my family can suport :-) I'm involved in other (not GNU) proyects and the time is not infinite. Anyone is interested in continuos with the development of JSelf? I promess to colaborate with all the info for finish (the software get finished???) the project. TIA, (|diego. gomez. deck|)

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Re: JSelf future
by vincent.coetzee＠rmb.co.za 19 Feb '00

19 Feb '00

Hi I obviously missed the discusson about JSelf, can you explain what it is ? Thanks Vincent

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Re: self-interest digest
by John Hinsley 19 Feb '00

19 Feb '00

eGroups Digest wrote: > > eGroups Daily Digest: self-interest has 2 new messages. > Click here http://www.eGroups.com/list/self-interest/?start=610 to read them. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > 610. Jecel Assumpcao Jr. Re: JSelf future > 611. Jecel Assumpcao Jr. remote GUI > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------ message 610 ------------------------------ > http://www.eGroups.com/list/self-interest/?start=610 > > From: Jecel Assumpcao Jr. <jecel(a)merlintec.com> > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 21:22:45 -0200 > References: <42256888.002F5C67.00(a)rmb-2.rmb.co.za> > In-Reply-To: <42256888.002F5C67.00(a)rmb-2.rmb.co.za> > X-Mailing-List: self-interest(a)egroups.com > Subject: [self-interest] Re: JSelf future > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > Vincent wrote: > > I recently implemented Morphic (well not exactly, but something very very > > similar) in Java. I had to use a lot of dirty tricks to get the required > > performance, although I must admit that with Hotspot (how ironic, that so many > > ideas came from Self, and yet Self was displaced by Java) on NT it really > > flies. I would have grave misgivings about implementing Self on Java. BTW, when > > you say implementing Self on Java, do you mean Self in Java or Self on top of a > > Java VM ? > > I could be wrong, but I think that the current version of JSelf is an > interpreter written in Java but that there were plans for a future version that > would compile Self to the Java VM bytecodes. > > -- Jecel > > ------------------------------ message 611 ------------------------------ > http://www.eGroups.com/list/self-interest/?start=611 > > From: Jecel Assumpcao Jr. <jecel(a)merlintec.com> > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 21:26:27 -0200 > References: <42256888.002F5C67.00(a)rmb-2.rmb.co.za> > In-Reply-To: <42256888.002F5C67.00(a)rmb-2.rmb.co.za> > X-Mailing-List: self-interest(a)egroups.com > Subject: [self-interest] remote GUI > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > Vincent wrote: > > I recently implemented Morphic (well not exactly, but something very very > > similar) in Java. > > That reminds me of something else. I need a way to access Kansas (the Self GUI) > from across the network. This is not possible for the Mac version, but I will > be using Sparc so simply installing an X Window server on the client machine > (confused yet?) would seem to solve my problem. Except this network goes > through a 33kbps modem so it would be too slow for practical use. > > Since VNC (http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/) is often mentioned as a > lightweight alternative to X, I was considering implementing a vncWindow > object. This would allow Kansas to be multiuser on the Mac as well, which is a > good thing. This problem is that VNC seems to be optimized for high speed > networks (it transfers compressed bitmaps) and not modems. > > An alternative would be to create a remoteCanvas object that would talk to a > counterpart written in Java (which is where Morphic in Java comes in) and > running on the client. It should transfer less bytes (send the info that we > drew a green circle, and not all the bits of the circle) but I am afraid that I > am just creating X all over again. > > Does anyone have any experience with these things? > -- Jecel > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > View the full archives, subscribe/unsubscribe, use the > group calendar at http://www.eGroups.com/list/self-interest > Manage your subscriptions at http://eGroups.com > > Free e-mail groups by eGroups.com. > ------> No: much of the stuff on this group is way above my head. But, I've read that the Berlin Group (who they?) are about to launch a windowing equivalent of X11 which should be lighter and faster. After all, for all its wonders, X11 imposes a pretty heavy memory overhead. It might be worth finding out more before going out and re-inventing a wheel for something else. I'd love a self with gui for my Linux box. (Ideally using GTK!) -- ############################################################## Traduttore di madre lingua inglese disponibile per progetti di ogni tipo. Prezzi unici! <jhinsley(a)telinco.co.uk> ##############################################################

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Re: Self Hack Weekend in S.F.
by Thorsten Dittmar 11 Feb '00

11 Feb '00

Hello, I get yesterday a request for or talk here in Munich. This clients are very important for us, so I want to ask you if it is possible to move our date. 2 or 4 weeks later would be great for me. I'm very sorry about this, but this clients are very important for us. Thorsten

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Re: Self Hack Weekend in S.F.
by Thorsten Dittmar 07 Feb '00

07 Feb '00

> This sounds very interesting! > It would be much better for Mario & I if we could just have this here. > I think we could work in the Labs here. > How do you feel about that? This is also ok for me. What is about the hardware stuff? We can bring our laptops with us, but this is maybe not enough. > (I'm not sure I could get away to Sebastopol, sorry). > If you like this idea, let me know and I will see to this end. What a kind of preparation can we do to make this weekend as productive as possible? How many people what to join us????? Anybody for South America?

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Self-interest February 2000