[self-interest] Re: Model View Controller and the Observer pattern

Albertina Lourenci lourenci at lsi.usp.br
Tue Aug 28 20:58:30 UTC 2001

John Hinsley wrote:
Dear John:

Heartfelt thanks for your cool message!!

>  Albertina Lourenci <lourenci at lsi.usp.br> wrote:
> > And artists only feel attracted towards friendly things.
> Don't you find Squeak friendly and cute?

Seen it through Jecel's eyes it is amazing!!!
Anyhow I am
drowning here in a flood of nice papers. I am awfully
excited with the next OOPSLA'01  program.
The invited talks are amazing but see this one
Peter Deutsch: Software transparency and object technologies!
He says: We define software as transparent to the extent
it is conceived, developed, documented, licensed, distributed,
and cared for to intentionally facilitate reading, understanding
analysis, validation, confidence; repair, adaptation, extension
evolution; interoperation, integration, incorporation; sharing;
and use.

I am excited about X-Programming and all the agile software!
Here they talk and talk and talk and never say how they
implement their stuff!!Now I am going to Vienna to
the European Conference on Software Evolution and Sigsoft
Symposium on Foundations of Software Evolution. I will
attend a tutorial about X-programming extended to complex
software. I hope I will come back enlightened!!!
My software hopes to be transparent. So transparent that
I will only start teaching when I can teach even a five-year-old
child to handle it! This is why I need a very expressive and
friendly language!!!

I am reading right now about the presentation-abstraction-control

architectural pattern (PAC). Frank Buschman et al define a
structure for interactive software systems in the form of a hierarchy
of cooperating agents. Here I can feel what an agent is, although
it is not as musical as the paper on agent based approach  from CACM<
April 2001.
But both do not show the implementation code!!!!!Nick , the author
says I can
implement it in any language, C Fortran Cobol and so on!!!!!

I get extremely disgusted when I hear such  a statement!!!Why  do nice
conceptual papers hide views about implementation?
Maybe because they are aware of their contradictions and do not want
to face them!!!
Experts do not really strive to be faithful to their source of inspiration.

> > Could you please tell me where I can read more about this (MVC + Morphic)?
> Maybe a good place to start is John Maloney's paper
> http://coweb.cc.gatech.edu/squeakbook/35

Pretty nice!!!

> (this is the chapter from
> Squeak: Open Personal Computing and Multimedia
>     edited by Mark Guzdial and Kim Rose
>     Prentice-Hall)
> Sounds great!

> On the Squeak list, John recently wrote:
> > Morphic is a graphical object system that's completely independent of
> > MVC; you can even remove MVC from a Morphic Squeak image entirely.

but if they have both I believe it is possible to make them interact! Buschman
says design and architectural patterns are language independent! It is strange
my ecodesign model is not language independent!Of course I can start
implementing part of it in a language, other part in another language and so on.

But this does not rhyme with transparence!!! For me this is bad solution!!!

I hope X-programming is not something like this!!If it is I will hate it from
very deep of my heart!!!

> >
> > The biggest difference is that Morphic has an incremental display update
> > system that allows many graphical objects to be animating or updating at
> > the same time, whereas in MVC only one window (controller) is active at
> > any given time.

Of course I am fond of it! But I would like it to be like Pascal, Fortran C
and so on where I studied by myself and managed to program better
than the mathematicians and computer science graduate students!!
I read hundreds of pages of the Self manual and yet if Jecel were next to me
I would not be able to program a single line!!!!
Beta and the Mjolner Beta system sound better! But I did not program in it!!

> >
> > Morphic and MVC both have their strengths. MVC is better when memory
> > or processor cycles are in short supply. It is smaller, simpler, and more
> > efficient, but it doesn't do as many cool things. Morphic makes it easy to
> > have a lot of things happening at once, and it helps the programmer
> > create window contents that goes beyond text and list panes.
> Which is a pretty fair (albeit brief!) summary from the horse's mouth.

Thanks again!!
I do need to work with lots of experts. By October I will  attempt to begin a
joint   thematic
project here at Electrical Engineering uniting Departments of Energy and
Automation and
Electronic Systems Engineering. The electronic engineers here do not care at all
if at the
end I will have a running program or not. They just want to advance the domain
about energy installations to build an ecobuilding, the electrical systems to
control temperature
and so on.
Of course I am excited with this in-depth incremental contribution to enhance my
domain model
but I want to be sure they will learn to model, I am sure I can teach them this
but I want
to see it implemented in a program similar to Self or better.
All the people involved with Self is concerned with lots of things, less in
making an intelligible

And this situation is all around the world!!I have no chance of working with
other people
unless I make up my mind to lower my level and start behaving like architects
concerned with theory!!!My ideas are efficient  and transparent if implemented!
In a friendly language!!If not, they are sophisticated and hence worthless and

And soon I would feel like the Dutch graphical artist Maurits C. Escher who
my methodology!!!Alone and useless!!Yet he enchants the world now!!!And finally
I am
transforming his tilings into architecture as he wished when he was seventeen
years old!!!
Isn't it magic? Is it enough that I can understand this myself?

You see the prototile concept of Escher is the revolutionary thing in the tiling
Simply because he creates unique tiles that adapts to each other, birds into
butterflies into snails and so on!!This the gist of the prototype!!It is
fundamental for me!
Classes are meaningless as are meaningless all the eight hundred pages of the
beautiful book Tilings and Patterns from Gruenbaum and Shepphard!!Their only
contribution to my research was to show mathematically that indeed
Escher's prototiles made sense in mathematics!!!Moreover Jablan, an Jugoslavian
mathematician translated all Escher's tilings into mathematical concept!!And I
continue extending this further through the subgroup relationships of the
In 1995 I would never dream of this!! Now I have it all!!

So will it happen the same with my pursuit in prototype based programming?
I hope so!!!

Best wishes

> Cheers
> John
> --
> Can't cope anymore? Desperate for help?
> Join the 12 step program for those who yearn to give up Microsoft:
> http://home.earthlink.net/~penguinrox/index.html
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: lourenci.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 620 bytes
Desc: Card for Albertina Lourenci
URL: <http://lists.selflanguage.org/pipermail/self-interest/attachments/20010828/9707231a/attachment.vcf>

More information about the Self-interest mailing list