[self-interest] Quiet in Self land?

Gordon Cichon selfinterest at lists.cichon.com
Thu Sep 18 16:05:14 UTC 2014

On 09/17/2014 05:15 AM, Russell Allen mail at russell-allen.com 
[self-interest] wrote:
> On 16 Sep 2014, at 9:39 pm, Casey Ransberger casey.obrien.r at gmail.com 
> <mailto:casey.obrien.r at gmail.com> [self-interest] 
> <self-interest at yahoogroups.com <mailto:self-interest at yahoogroups.com>> 
> wrote:
>> On Sep 16, 2014, at 2:34 AM, "Russell Allen mail at russell-allen.com 
>> <mailto:mail at russell-allen.com> [self-interest]" 
>> <self-interest at yahoogroups.com 
>> <mailto:self-interest at yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>>> On 16 Sep 2014, at 5:17 pm, Casey Ransberger 
>>> casey.obrien.r at gmail.com <mailto:casey.obrien.r at gmail.com> 
>>> [self-interest] <self-interest at yahoogroups.com 
>>> <mailto:self-interest at yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>>>> Web development framework. Okay, so that isn't really fun at all, 
>>>> but it *might* create some new interest in the project.
>>> We now have an almost web server, which I'm running selflangauge.org 
>>> <http://selflangauge.org/> on behind nginx
>>> For the simple sites I've written most web frameworks seem weirdly 
>>> complex to me, but it's not my area so I assume they are useful for 
>>> people who need them.
>> Awesome. Can I read the code somewhere?
> I've split it out into http://github.com/russellallen/self-webserver
> It's more a sketch of a webserver than something real :)
>>>> Mother of Stupid Ideas: do a web browser and fire 90% of the 
>>>> operating system, which is nowadays a life support system for a web 
>>>> browser anyway. I've been wanting to do this in Squeak since I 
>>>> arrived unwashed at the threshold of the mysteries of the message 
>>>> send. In Self, though, one of the ideas I had could really work 
>>>> better than in any other system presently: one could use direct, 
>>>> live manipulation of the morphs that comprise a web page to edit 
>>>> the actual page in a WYSIWYG fashion, and then use a variant of the 
>>>> object transporter, maybe with some parsing expression grammar 
>>>> sauce, to idea send a message which makes the page recursively 
>>>> render itself as HTML, CSS, and Javascript. It's like FrontPage, 
>>>> but without all of the suck! Of course, we'd need recruits, so...
>>> Oh that's easy. Write a javascript->self translator, run webkit 
>>> through emscripten and Bob's your uncle :p
>> Haha, but that defeats the entire point. The browser must be written 
>> in Self. That's how I get to fire my operating system. It could be 
>> Self, it could be Squeak, but if we ever built a web browser, we 
>> could seriously run on nearly bare metal and get by. It's an enormous 
>> amount of work to support a broken paradigm though, so I'm not 
>> oblivious to why it hasn't happened yet.
> You could easily have a Linux kernel boot into Self (with or without a 
> really cut down userland)
> Big problems for me are:
> (1) only 32 bit. So either we write a new 64 bit VM, or we run lots of 
> Self vms messaging each other
> (2) complete lack of security within a Self world. ie code can do 
> abominations like "0 _Quit"

why "0 _Quit" and not just "_Quit"?


> Russell

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