[self-interest] goals (was: dynamic deoptimization)

ungar at mac.com ungar at mac.com
Wed Dec 14 05:46:57 UTC 2011

Have you ever used OMeta and tried to debug your OMeta program?
I tried, very briefly, and was put off by the debugging experience.
But maybe you've had better luck.

- David

On Dec 12, 2011, at 5:48 PM, Casey Ransberger wrote:

> Top post: nested interpreters makes me think about OMeta. Just a thought. 
> On Dec 12, 2011, at 3:28 PM, "Jecel Assumpcao Jr." <jecel at merlintec.com> wrote:
>> Thorsten Dittmar wrote:
>> > I'm interested in general , to get self more selfish. If we would be able to
>> > manifest the principles of self even more accurate and more evident, that
>> > would be something great. For that reason I thought that the Klein VM would
>> > be one of the right steps.
>> It is a very good idea to be able to use what we have learned. That is
>> how we got Self in the first place, and before that Smalltalk-80 from
>> -78/-76 and those from -72/-74. Commercialization from Smalltalk-80 as
>> it was, so the lessons from Ark couldn't be applied.
>> Klein tried to implement the stuff learned after Self 1, 2 and 3 and
>> then Squeak. My main problem with that project is that it uses
>> generative coding (think macros) to get more done with less but this is
>> done in a system that is unaware of this. So you get generated code side
>> by side with hand written stuff and it takes a very long time to figure
>> out which is which if you weren't the one who created them in the first
>> place. This also tends to create many copies of the same stuff (made
>> worse by the fact that there are several parallel experiments in the
>> same code) and it takes a while to figure out which ones are used where.
>> Since Klein has not been touched since 2006, my own strategy will be to
>> try to include what I can learn (and have already learned) from it in a
>> new system. My PhD project is to implement a self sustained system in a
>> way that is understandable by generating code from nested interpreters
>> (which are easy to write and understand) with partial evaluation (even
>> if a mostly faked one, like in Pypy where tracing does the job a partial
>> evaluator would do). One way a system can be defined in itself is
>> through reflection - meta-objects. That leads to the problem of an
>> infinite tower of interpretation, but as I just said nested interpreters
>> are exactly what I hope my system will be able to handle.
>> The metric to measure the success of my PhD project will be how much of
>> Klein's funcionality it will have compared with how much smaller it will
>> be to do it.
>> The language I have been using is Squeak in order to play nice with
>> several projects that are interesting to me. But I think it might be
>> better to include more options, like Self 4 and some even simpler
>> version.
>> -- Jecel

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