[self-interest] goals (was: dynamic deoptimization)

Casey Ransberger casey.obrien.r at gmail.com
Tue Dec 13 01:48:10 UTC 2011

Top post: nested interpreters makes me think about OMeta. Just a thought. 

On Dec 12, 2011, at 3:28 PM, "Jecel Assumpcao Jr." <jecel at merlintec.com> wrote:

> Thorsten Dittmar wrote:
> > I'm interested in general , to get self more selfish. If we would be able to
> > manifest the principles of self even more accurate and more evident, that
> > would be something great. For that reason I thought that the Klein VM would
> > be one of the right steps.
> It is a very good idea to be able to use what we have learned. That is
> how we got Self in the first place, and before that Smalltalk-80 from
> -78/-76 and those from -72/-74. Commercialization from Smalltalk-80 as
> it was, so the lessons from Ark couldn't be applied.
> Klein tried to implement the stuff learned after Self 1, 2 and 3 and
> then Squeak. My main problem with that project is that it uses
> generative coding (think macros) to get more done with less but this is
> done in a system that is unaware of this. So you get generated code side
> by side with hand written stuff and it takes a very long time to figure
> out which is which if you weren't the one who created them in the first
> place. This also tends to create many copies of the same stuff (made
> worse by the fact that there are several parallel experiments in the
> same code) and it takes a while to figure out which ones are used where.
> Since Klein has not been touched since 2006, my own strategy will be to
> try to include what I can learn (and have already learned) from it in a
> new system. My PhD project is to implement a self sustained system in a
> way that is understandable by generating code from nested interpreters
> (which are easy to write and understand) with partial evaluation (even
> if a mostly faked one, like in Pypy where tracing does the job a partial
> evaluator would do). One way a system can be defined in itself is
> through reflection - meta-objects. That leads to the problem of an
> infinite tower of interpretation, but as I just said nested interpreters
> are exactly what I hope my system will be able to handle.
> The metric to measure the success of my PhD project will be how much of
> Klein's funcionality it will have compared with how much smaller it will
> be to do it.
> The language I have been using is Squeak in order to play nice with
> several projects that are interesting to me. But I think it might be
> better to include more options, like Self 4 and some even simpler
> version.
> -- Jecel
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