[self-interest] have to get this off my heart

ungar at mac.com ungar at mac.com
Sun Dec 26 07:21:31 UTC 2010

I put annotations in to support the other world; not the world at execution-time, but the world at programming time.
I have yet to see a model of execution that supports all of the structure a programmer needs to impose upon the world.
For instance, if you are going to file out a subset of objects or slots and then file them in to another world of objects, I am convinced
that you need more information than just what is needed to run the objects. See my OOPSLA transporter paper for details.

Also, it is very useful to have categories within a single object. At run-time you need just one object, but at concept-time, you need
some way to group things, although a strict hierarchy may not be optimal.

So, if you need some information that plays no role in execution, it must only exist in the reflective domain.
I don't see how you get anything much different than annotations, but I would enjoy seeing proposals.

Copy-down is a bit of a different matter. It sort of straddles programming time and run time, though only REFLECTIVE run-time.
Maybe the folks at Vrije have a better way, or maybe Ly, my latest object system design is better. (I think so.)
In Ly, all non-constant slots are copied-down, as part of the language.

It's easy to complain about something, but think about why it's there and how else you would do it.
In my experience, one ends up sweeping dirt around under the carpet; it doesn't go away. 
Once in a while there is a nice unification. If you don't like annotations, let's see you find that unification.

- David

On Dec 25, 2010, at 10:39 PM, Josh Flowers wrote:

> Not sure I'd have been quite so diplomatic about it - but I don't disagree.
> > First of all I wish you all the best :D.
> > 
> > I hate annotation.
> > They are like a language in a language.
> > Why not create invisible slots or something that are simply hidden my the outliner.
> > C'mon they managed to do the fricking namespaces with objects and slots... why then staple something on top later.
> > This has kept me up all week, what a relief.
> > 
> > Happy Holidays, Jan
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 

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