Hi,
my vacation is over, I have to continue working on something else. Therfore I have less time now to continue with the Self port. I think that there is not missing too much to finally get a running system (with all the applications :-)). It all comes down to the stack walking code.
In order to give others the chance to participate, too, I have put the stuff on the web server. Everybody who likes to see Self on Linux as soon as possible, and knows how to use a debugger is invited to help fixing the remaining problems. I will continue, too, of course. Maybe, I also made some mistakes...
-gordon
Gordon Cichon Gordon@Cichon.de wrote:
In order to give others the chance to participate, too, I have put the stuff on the web server. Everybody who likes to see Self on Linux as soon as possible, and knows how to use a debugger is invited to help fixing the remaining problems. I will continue, too, of course. Maybe, I also made some mistakes...
Is the Self on Linux project code being written to be portable to other Unixes like FreeBSD and NeXTstep/MacOSX?
Squeak did a decent job of providing portable APIs, maybe the same could be done with Self.
Steve
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Steve Dekorte wrote:
Is the Self on Linux project code being written to be portable to other Unixes like FreeBSD and NeXTstep/MacOSX?
It should also run on FreeBSD using glibc. Nextstep, I don't know. I don't see any fundamental obstackles besides the processor.
Squeak did a decent job of providing portable APIs, maybe the same could be done with Self.
Yes, it could. The current Self system was aimed to run very comfortably on one specific platform (i.e. Sun) with all the features it provides. There are also several applications written in Self, f.e. the user interface, the parser generator, the web server, etc. that directly rely on services like Xlib and sockets. The system does not encapsulate the OS in the way Smalltalk systems usually do.
I just would like to do something reasonable. Rewriting a complete Self system from scratch is a lot of work. Switching the code generator from Sparc to i386 seems to me a more manageable task. The system contains more than 5 times as much self code as C. And the most complex part, the memory system does not have to be changed.
-gordon
Gordon Cichon Gordon@Cichon.de wrote:
Steve Dekorte wrote:
Is the Self on Linux project code being written to be portable to other Unixes like FreeBSD and NeXTstep/MacOSX?
It should also run on FreeBSD using glibc. Nextstep, I don't know. I don't see any fundamental obstackles besides the processor.
What do you mean? I'm running NeXTstep 4.2 on Intel. Is this a problem? I'm more worried about tying this Self port to X-Windows.
Squeak did a decent job of providing portable APIs, maybe the same could be done with Self.
Yes, it could. The current Self system was aimed to run very comfortably on one specific platform (i.e. Sun) with all the features it provides. There are also several applications written in Self, f.e. the user interface, the parser generator, the web server, etc. that directly rely on services like Xlib and sockets. The system does not encapsulate the OS in the way Smalltalk systems usually do.
I just would like to do something reasonable. Rewriting a complete Self system from scratch is a lot of work. Switching the code generator from Sparc to i386 seems to me a more manageable task. The system contains more than 5 times as much self code as C. And the most complex part, the memory system does not have to be changed.
I see and agree that just getting it running on an Intel Unix would be a good start.
Steve
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9902021301.aa192861-@ix wrote: ...
I see and agree that just getting it running on an Intel Unix would be a good start.
When I first thought of having Self run on an Intel platform, I thought of Windows, which was the system I had then. Then, I noticed that it would be too much work at once to bring all the Unix facilities to Windows (I tried the excellent Cygwin32 and mingw32 ports of gcc, but that was not enough). Then I thought of having Self on SCO OpenServer, of which I had a noncommercial copy. As things were not easy, I cut all down to the smallest step I could think of. And that was Solaris x86. It looks like Gordon has solved the biggest problems of the port on Linux, but now I have spent the last six months studying the inner workings of the Self system and I think it's not time to stop. I always wanted to learn how such a great system works. And who knows what else can be achieved when more people try different solutions to the same problem... Congratulations to Gordon, and good luck to his future work. Douglas
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Hi,
David Ungar's Mac port of Self is very good. He showed it to me when I visited the bay area two weeks ago.
He already reimplemented the stack frame format for running it on the PPC. With his work, it seems feasable to get finally Self running on Linux with a reasonable amount of work.
Let's encourage David Ungar to release his work asap. It is a great step forward.
Please, David, release it soon!
Gordon.
Gordon Cichon wrote:
Hi,
David Ungar's Mac port of Self is very good. He showed it to me when I visited the bay area two weeks ago.
He already reimplemented the stack frame format for running it on the PPC. With his work, it seems feasable to get finally Self running on Linux with a reasonable amount of work.
Let's encourage David Ungar to release his work asap. It is a great step forward.
Maybe if more than 5 people would vote for the Mac in your poll, then he would feel more encouraged :-) Of course, with cute iBooks and new G4 machines coming out, Macs might be more popular in the near future.
Please, David, release it soon!
Amen! Specially if this port would help others, like Gordon indicated above. OOPSLA'99 will be here soon, and being able to give people a version of Self they could actually try could have a huge impact on the language's future.
-- Jecel
Maybe if more than 5 people would vote for the Mac in your poll, then he would feel more encouraged :-) Of course, with cute iBooks and new G4 machines coming out, Macs might be more popular in the near future.
I have just bought my own iMac. Very handy to take with me on weekends. And it features a free C++ development environment!!!
Please, David, release it soon!
Count me on! Regards, Douglas
Jecel Assumpcao Jr jecel@lsi.usp.br wrote:
Amen! Specially if this port would help others, like Gordon indicated above. OOPSLA'99 will be here soon, and being able to give people a version of Self they could actually try could have a huge impact on the language's future.
That would be great. Will there be a meeting of the Self folks at OOPSLA'99?
Steve
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