Self-interest November 1999

self-interest@lists.selflanguage.org

23 participants
21 discussions

(export/import modules)
by mpato 19 Nov '99

19 Nov '99

Hi everybody, Could anyone give me information to export/import modules from a world to another? Thanks for yuor help. Maryah

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JSelf
by eGroups.com Poll Results 18 Nov '99

18 Nov '99

JSelf (as some of you know) is intented to be a Self running on JavaVM, but the first version is only a interpreter written in Java. We take this way becouse we don't have a Sparc for playing with Self, and a interpreter is a good first place to play. For personal reazons (more work), the proyect was stalled in May/99. I'll upload the latest snapshot in the vault section of this group. For using this, you need JFlex and JavaCup. This version is working..... (Not as good as I wish) TIA, (|diego. gomez. deck|)

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Re: Grammar changes - comments?
by Randall.Smith＠Eng.Sun.COM 17 Nov '99

17 Nov '99

I must also say that even after programming in Smalltalk for years, I never missed not having cascades in Self. Maybe they just don't happen that often? At any rate, though they are a (possibly rare) convenience, having cascades would further distance Self from the Java/C programmer. (I have become of the opinion that some sort of pretty obvious syntax is almost a necessity for a language's acceptance. Java passed this hurdle by essentially re-using C/C++ syntax.) --Randy > From self-interest-return-287-Randall.Smith=Eng.Sun.COM(a)returns.egroups.com Mon Aug 30 12:47 PDT 1999 > Mailing-List: contact self-interest-owner(a)egroups.com > X-Mailing-List: self-interest(a)egroups.com > X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/self-interest/ > Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-self-interest(a)egroups.com > Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:45:17 -0300 > From: Jecel Assumpcao Jr <jecel(a)lsi.usp.br> > MIME-Version: 1.0 > To: self-interest(a)egroups.com > Subject: [self-interest] Re: Grammar changes - comments? > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Using the "." for resends was a very unfortunate decision, and > your idea to replace it with "$" is a good one. I had suggested > using "::" since several other languages already use that for > similar purposes and Java (and Beta, in a negative way) showed > how important it is to have familiar elements in the syntax. > > About the cascades, you would need a "dup" bytecode (but since > you already were going to add it anyway this is no big deal). > I have never missed it when programming in Self, however. > > -- Jecel > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get help getting gigs! Guru.com will make your freelance work more > lucrative and more fun. Join us as we create the Internet's best resource > for independent professionals. http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/804 > > > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/self-interest > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications > > > > >

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Re: self-interest digest
by Mario Wolczko 16 Nov '99

16 Nov '99

Jecel asked: > Wouldn't the way the Squeak group did graphics avoid this kind > of thing and make porting easier? They do everything in Squeak > (mostly translated to C, though) and only need the host GUI to > provide a way to copy from internal buffers to the screen. Then > practically everything becomes much easier to debug and actually > possible to fix. Simpler, but display performance for a shared world (where most displays are remote) is not great when you copy large chunks of the frame buffer around. -Mario

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Re: self-interest digest
by Mario Wolczko 15 Nov '99

15 Nov '99

Jecel wrote: Yes, I was talking about the Communications of the ACM article. It has been a while since I read it, but I had the impression that besides the infamous "Self 8 World" popping up with a debugger at the slightest UI bug, that you guys had added resources to debug most problems from the affected world itself. I thought you had an improved version over what was in 4.0. Since that isn't the case, I think I'll have a look at what can be done. It might be nice to remove the offending morph from the world and replace it with a robust proxy morph (one that is very hard to break and that would hold a reference to the original morph so we can get it back once it is fixed). This would work unless you have done something nasty to the worldMorph itself, or to traits morph. All the stuff in the CACM article is in 4.0, methinks, including turning off stepping for morphs whose step method is broken. The proxy idea is neat. -Mario

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Self in the Squeak list
by Jecel Assumpcao Jr 13 Nov '99

13 Nov '99

There has been some discussion of Self in the mailing list for the Squeak Smalltalk system. Even Alan Kay made some comments on what he liked and didn't like about Self. I think it started more or less here: http://www.egroups.com/group/squeak/?isDecendingSort=0&sortAccessor=subject… Alan's comment: http://www.egroups.com/group/squeak/7422.html? -- Jecel

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Re: self-interest digest
by Mario Wolczko 12 Nov '99

12 Nov '99

I wrote: > All the stuff in the CACM article is in 4.0, methinks, including > turning off stepping for morphs whose step method is broken. Jecel replied: True. I finally drummed up some courage and took a look at this part of the code. I can't say I followed it fully as it is one of the most twisted pieces of code I ever saw (the most was the Unix kernel). Thanks! I do my best! ;-) Seriously, this is a pretty tricky system. (I hope I get these details right; I haven't looked at the code in quite a while.) One reason is that the only way to safely handle problems in one thread is to hand off to another thread, so the code contain some tricky synchronizations. For example, if a morph is sent a step message, and does not complete within 5(?) seconds, a watcher thread suspends the thread, and removes the morph from the list of morphs being stepped. Also, if there is a problem in a thread (such as a failure in the basic display loop) we need to spawn another world, with another thread, containing a debugger on the failing thread. I doubt this could have all been done with conventional exception handling in a single thread, although it may have simplified the code a bit (I would have to take a fresh look to be sure). Anyway, the whole point is to be able to continue in the same world after the most common morphic boo boos. And that is nicer than getting dumped in a new windows (specially if other people are in the same world with you), isn't it? Yes, that's a nice goal. (Note that if, in the existing system, you a sharing a world that fails, everyone in that world gets transported to the new world. Of course, anyone who was not actively watching what you were doing will be mighty surprised!) Mario

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Self on PPC Linux
by Jecel Assumpcao Jr 12 Nov '99

12 Nov '99

Kyle Hayes suggested to me that now that Self 4.1 runs on the Mac, it wouldn't be too hard to compile it to run on Linux PPC. Doesn't anybody use this system? BTW, I downloaded 4.1 for the Sparc. Were there any changes for 4.1.1 that weren't specific for the Mac? -- Jecel

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Self 4.1 on ftp://self.sunlabs.com
by jdbell＠fareselaw.com 05 Nov '99

05 Nov '99

Hi all... I've ruined about three keyboards with anticipatory drool, but finally a reward. The links on the web page still don't seem to work, but the Self 4.1 release stuff can be found on the ftp site. /pub/self/Self 4.1 or something like that. So, I've officially appropriated my girlfriend's iMac and am downloading as we speak. It feels like Christmas around here! Don't worry about her though, she likes the 21" monitor on my machine better anyway. Hello to everyone lucky enough to be at OOPSLA this year, and many many thanks to David Ungar! jdbell

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Re: self-interest digest
by Mario Wolczko 05 Nov '99

05 Nov '99

Jecel wrote: BTW, does 4.1 include the Oz debugging thing? If you mean the facility of Kansas that lets you debug one world from another, as described in our CACM article, then yes it does. It was part of 4.0, too, btw. -Mario

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Self-interest November 1999