Self-interest August 1992

self-interest@lists.selflanguage.org

26 participants
29 discussions

Self Size
by rwk＠quark.sbi.com 22 Aug '92

22 Aug '92

Why does Self require so much memory? Also, I have a SPARCstation 1+ w/40 meg. of ram... The Self UI runs somewhat slowly. The performance benchmarks quoted in the various Self documents would make me think the UI would be quite snappy. Why isn't it? I really like what I have seen so far. I cannot think of another language with as much power and flexibility (I just wish it was a little smaller and faster). One more question... I am a fan of Scheme and its functional syntax. Could a functional "front end" be written for Self? Not necessarily Scheme compatible, just "lisp-ish". Thanks, Dick

2 1

Problem running Self 2.0
by timh＠sunwa.Aus.Sun.COM 20 Aug '92

20 Aug '92

Hi I am only new to Self, and am having a great deal of trouble trying to get Self 2.0 (FCS) to run porperly. Here is the log of what I am having probs with. As you can see I am not getting very far. I beleive I have installed it correctly. I am using a dual headed SS1+ with 28Mb and SunOS 4.1.2. Oh and Spy will run OK it seems. hardwired% Self Self Virtual Machine Version 2.0, Jun 1 1992 10:10:36 Copyright 1989-92: The Self Group (type _Credits for credits) reading ~/.selfrc VM# prompt start A lookup error happened: lobby did not understand the message "prompt". The receiver also did not understand the lookup error message "undefinedSelector:Type:Delegatee:MethodHolder:Arguments:" which was subsequently sent to it. -- Self VM #0 (<error>:1): prompt = ( | _ self* = lobby. | "undefined selector error; this method was automatically generated by the VM." ) #1 doIt = ( | _ self* = lobby. | prompt start ) #2 (<predefined>:1): printIt = ( | _ self* = lobby. | doIt _Print ) VM# Not much else works either. TIA Tim Hoffman SE Sun Microsystems Australia Pty Ltd 130 Hay St Subiaco, Western Australia 6008 Ph +619 388 2161 Fax +619 388 2717 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mega big disclaimer :- Anything I say has nothing to do with my employer ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - 668 The neighbour of the Beast (jjj)

2 1

None
by keith＠Uniteq.COM 20 Aug '92

20 Aug '92

>> From self.stanford.edu!owner-self-interest(a)netcomsv.netcom.com Tue Aug 18 14:>12:35 1992 >> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 13:52:53 PDT >> From: Eng.Sun.COM!Urs.Hoelzle(a)netcomsv.netcom.com (Urs Hoelzle) >> To: dirkst(a)POOL.informatik.rwth-aachen.de >> Cc: self-interest(a)self.stanford.edu >> Content-Length: 1911 >> >> My question: Is anyone porting Self to some other platform, maybe even >> to the 386? I have Linux running on a 486/33 w/ 16 Meg RAM and 500 Meg >> HD, which should be a workable system for Self; I have gcc-2.2.2 and >> libg++-2.2, so it should be possible to compile the virtual machine >> (judging from the README's). > > (then Urs Hoelzle responded...) > > To cite from a previous mail: We're certainly aware of that problem, > and there is no intention of restricting it to the Sparc architecture. > However, we currently do not have the manpower to port Self to other > platforms. > It is my understanding that the Self UI group is planning on building the next generation UI on XGL, which would make it inherently non-portable. PEXlib, OpenGL, and PHIGS, however, are portable, to varying degrees. PEXlib, for example is portable to all X platforms and is reported to give 85% of the performance of XGL, which sounds like a minor thing to give up for portability. OpenGL is not only portable to other X platforms, but is being licensed by Microsoft for NT/Windows, so that a port to other non-UNIX platforms would be feasible. Keith Hankin uniteq!keith(a)netcomsv.netcom.com

2 1

None
by dirkst＠POOL.informatik.rwth-aachen.de 20 Aug '92

20 Aug '92

Hi, I have recently read about Self and ftp'd some papers from self.stanford.edu, I even got the sun4 version of Self 2.0 and played around with it for a few minutes. Otherwise, I have no experience with Self whatsoever, but from what I read I am kand of enthusiastic. My question: Is anyone porting Self to some other platform, maybe even to the 386? I have Linux running on a 486/33 w/ 16 Meg RAM and 500 Meg HD, which should be a workable system for Self; I have gcc-2.2.2 and libg++-2.2, so it should be possible to compile the virtual machine (judging from the README's). BUT: I have the feeling that the compiler really generates native SPARC code and so one would have to write a completely new backend and assembler for the 386. I guess that would be a *major* project!?? Is the compiler/assembler written in Self or C++? If Self is tied to the SPARC achitecure and inherently non=portable, then that would nagatively influence the impact that this exciting software could have. How about using the gcc backend? Thanks for any info, Dirk Dirk Steinberg dirkst(a)pool.informatik.rwth-aachen.de

3 3

Re: porting self
by David.Ungar＠Eng.Sun.COM 20 Aug '92

20 Aug '92

Linking the gcc backend--could be neat Dave

1 0

The fwrite patch.
by clayton＠cc.gatech.edu 19 Aug '92

19 Aug '92

I've run into the kernel bug triggered by _WriteSnapshot. Where do I get the patch?

2 1

porting self
by moss%ibis＠cs.umass.edu 19 Aug '92

19 Aug '92

>>>>> On Tue, 18 Aug 92 13:52:53 PDT, Urs.Hoelzle(a)Eng.Sun.COM said: Urs.Hoelzle> How about using the gcc backend? Urs.Hoelzle> We have considered that, but it's not as easy as it seems. One Urs.Hoelzle> problem is that gcc's backend needs to be taught about garbage Urs.Hoelzle> collection. Some people at UMass (Eliot Mass' group) are doing Urs.Hoelzle> this for Modula-3, but as far as I know it's not working yet (and Urs.Hoelzle> they have put a lot of effort in it). The other problem is that Urs.Hoelzle> gcc might be too slow - in Self, compilation happens at run-time, Urs.Hoelzle> so you'd like to keep compile pauses in the millisecond area, and Urs.Hoelzle> I'm not sure if gcc as a traditional batch compiler is up to Urs.Hoelzle> that. Actually, it *is* working (gc support in GNU Modula-3, using gcc's back end). We would be thrilled if some other people tried to use this technology, though I would say we're probably not so far along that we're ready to release code to just anybody (still needs some cleanup I think). We would also be pleased to help someone (say a graduate student at Stanford) get our gc toolkit (implemented) and mature object space collector (not yet implemented) going with Self. As for the speed issue, perhaps if you kept a gcc fork around, designed to receive methods for compilation on standard input and to deliver the compiled code to standard output you could get reasonable response. Probably not as fast as what you have now, but perhaps good enough (especially on a multiprocessor?). Regards -- Eliot J. Eliot B. Moss, Associate Professor Department of Computer Science Lederle Graduate Research Center University of Massachusetts Amherst, MA 01003 (413) 545-4206, 545-1249 (fax); Moss(a)cs.umass.edu

2 1

ftp w/o ftp access
by Bay.Chang＠Eng.Sun.COM 19 Aug '92

19 Aug '92

> As an interested (self-interested?) observer of functional languages and > OO functional languages without access to the FTP features of the Internet, > could someone send or direct me to more information about Self? Try the ftpmail service. By sending a request to this service, you can get it to fetch you files from any ftp site. It also breaks them up in chunks so that mailers can handle large files. You can get information on this service by sending an email with the word "help" in the Subject line to: ftpmail(a)uucp-gw-2.pa.dec.com It will immediately mail you back instructions on how to fetch the files you want. Actual ftpmail requests are usually fulfilled within a day or so (from what I gather). Info on Self is available at self.stanford.edu. You'll probably want the documentation in /pub/Self-2.0/manuals/progRef.book.ps.Z /pub/Self-2.0/manuals/usingSelf.book.ps.Z and the system in /pub/Self-2.0/sun4/README /pub/Self-2.0/sun4/Install /pub/Self-2.0/sun4/Self.tar.Z and, perhaps, the papers in the directory /pub/papers. Bay

1 0

re: using gcc
by chambers＠cs.washington.edu 19 Aug '92

19 Aug '92

It might be interesting to look at using gcc's back-end (with some sort of rtl-based input language) for Self. It would support whatever functionality we needed better than using C as the target language. -- Craig

1 0

Umm, partially ridiculous question
by Scott Michel 19 Aug '92

19 Aug '92

As an interested (self-interested?) observer of functional languages and OO functional languages without access to the FTP features of the Internet, could someone send or direct me to more information about Self? Much appreciated if someone could oblige. - scottm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Scott Michel, IntelliMED Corporation | "For the words of the profits were E-mail: scottm(a)intime.intime.COM | written on the studio walls!" CI$: 72600,1657 | [Rush - _Permanent Waves_] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Disclaimer: #include <sys/std/disclaimer.h>

1 0

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

2000

1999

1998

1997

1996

1995

1994

1993

1992

1991

1990

Self-interest August 1992