<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=us-ascii"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><br><div><div>On 16 Sep 2014, at 9:39 pm, Casey Ransberger <a href="mailto:casey.obrien.r@gmail.com">casey.obrien.r@gmail.com</a> [self-interest] <<a href="mailto:self-interest@yahoogroups.com">self-interest@yahoogroups.com</a>> wrote:</div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); position: static; z-index: auto;"><div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; position: relative;"><div id="ygrp-msg" style="line-height: 1.22em; z-index: 1;"><div id="ygrp-text" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-family: Georgia;"><div style="line-height: 1.22em; margin: 0px 0px 1em;"><span style="line-height: 1.22em;">On Sep 16, 2014, at 2:34 AM, "Russell Allen</span> <a href="mailto:mail@russell-allen.com" style="line-height: 1.22em;">mail@russell-allen.com</a> <span style="line-height: 1.22em;">[self-interest]" <</span><a href="mailto:self-interest@yahoogroups.com" style="line-height: 1.22em;">self-interest@yahoogroups.com</a><span style="line-height: 1.22em;">> wrote:</span></div><blockquote type="cite" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 4px; line-height: 1.22em;"><div style="line-height: 1.22em;"><div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; line-height: 1.22em;"><div id="ygrp-msg" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><div id="ygrp-text" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-family: Georgia;"><div style="line-height: 1.22em;"><div style="line-height: 1.22em;">On 16 Sep 2014, at 5:17 pm, Casey Ransberger<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:casey.obrien.r@gmail.com" style="line-height: 1.22em;">casey.obrien.r@gmail.com</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[self-interest] <<a href="mailto:self-interest@yahoogroups.com" style="line-height: 1.22em;">self-interest@yahoogroups.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><blockquote type="cite" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 4px; line-height: 1.22em;"><div style="line-height: 1.22em; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;"><div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; line-height: 1.22em;"><div id="ygrp-msg" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><div id="ygrp-text" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-family: Georgia;"><div style="line-height: 1.22em; margin: 0px 0px 1em;"><span style="line-height: 1.22em;">Web development framework. Okay, so that isn't really fun at all, but it *might* create some new interest in the project.</span></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="line-height: 1.22em;">We now have an almost web server, which I'm running<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://selflangauge.org/" style="line-height: 1.22em;">selflangauge.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>on behind nginx</div><div style="line-height: 1.22em;"><br style="line-height: 1.22em;"></div><div style="line-height: 1.22em;">For the simple sites I've written most web frameworks seem weirdly complex to me, but it's not my area so I assume they are useful for people who need them.</div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="line-height: 1.22em;"><br style="line-height: 1.22em;"></div>Awesome. Can I read the code somewhere?</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I've split it out into <a href="http://github.com/russellallen/self-webserver">http://github.com/russellallen/self-webserver</a></div><div><br></div><div>It's more a sketch of a webserver than something real :)</div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); position: static; z-index: auto;"><div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; position: relative;"><div id="ygrp-msg" style="line-height: 1.22em; z-index: 1;"><div id="ygrp-text" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-family: Georgia;"><div style="line-height: 1.22em;"><blockquote type="cite" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 4px; line-height: 1.22em;"><div style="line-height: 1.22em;"><div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; line-height: 1.22em;"><div id="ygrp-msg" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><div id="ygrp-text" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-family: Georgia;"><div style="line-height: 1.22em;"><blockquote type="cite" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 4px; line-height: 1.22em;"><div style="line-height: 1.22em; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;"><div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; line-height: 1.22em;"><div id="ygrp-msg" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><div id="ygrp-text" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-family: Georgia;"><div dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><div style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span style="line-height: 1.22em;">Mother of Stupid Ideas: do a web browser and fire 90% of the operating system, which is nowadays a life support system for a web browser anyway. I've been wanting to do this in Squeak since I arrived unwashed at the threshold of the mysteries of the message send. In Self, though, one of the ideas I had could really work better than in any other system presently: one could use direct, live manipulation of the morphs that comprise a web page to edit the actual page in a WYSIWYG fashion, and then use a variant of the object transporter, maybe with some parsing expression grammar sauce, to idea send a message which makes the page recursively render itself as HTML, CSS, and Javascript. It's like FrontPage, but without all of the suck! Of course, we'd need recruits, so...</span></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="line-height: 1.22em;"><br style="line-height: 1.22em;"></div><div style="line-height: 1.22em;">Oh that's easy. Write a javascript->self translator, run webkit through emscripten and Bob's your uncle :p</div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="line-height: 1.22em;"><br style="line-height: 1.22em;"></div><div style="line-height: 1.22em;">Haha, but that defeats the entire point. The browser must be written in Self. That's how I get to fire my operating system. It could be Self, it could be Squeak, but if we ever built a web browser, we could seriously run on nearly bare metal and get by. It's an enormous amount of work to support a broken paradigm though, so I'm not oblivious to why it hasn't happened yet. </div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>You could easily have a Linux kernel boot into Self (with or without a really cut down userland)</div><div><br></div><div>Big problems for me are:</div><div><br></div><div>(1) only 32 bit. So either we write a new 64 bit VM, or we run lots of Self vms messaging each other</div><div>(2) complete lack of security within a Self world. ie code can do abominations like "0 _Quit" </div><div><br></div><div>Russell</div></div></body></html>