<html><head><base href="x-msg://317/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>How much would it help to port the UI to OpenGL (not changing the Self UI at all, just hooking into OpenGL for drawing/user events instead of the native APIs)? I've looked at it before and it feels like a do-able task, but if it's only 5% of the porting work....</div><div><br></div><div>Are there any other changes that would minimize the amount of work needed for ports? I'm not at all familiar with Klein, but are there chunks of work that we could pull from C++ into Self?</div><div><br></div><div>Other than that I'm with you - I could only help by putting money into a Self-on-Windows kitty.</div><div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">To be honest, I don't think Klein makes sense at this time. It's too experimental and there's too much new work needed to be done on it.<br><div><br></div><div>Porting the existing C++ VM to Windows and also ARM is a straight forward exercise treading an already travelled path: the VM has already moved from Solaris->Mac OS X->Linux and Sparc->PPC->x86</div><div><br></div><div>All that is needed is someone with time and suitable C++ skills. (Btw, if there is anyone qualified and interested in the task it might even be possible for some resources to be found to help fund it.)</div><div><br></div><div>- Russell</div><br><div><div>On 28/12/2010, at 4:20 PM, Josh Flowers wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><div id="ygrp-text"><p style="clear: both; padding-top: 15px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 3px; padding-left: 0px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden; ">I'd love to have Self on a touch device, but I don't think it makes sense as a community focus (yet).<br><br>Seems to me that we're in the early stages of one of those resource management games - where you need to focus on getting the stuff that lets you build other stuff. In our case that means getting more active developers so we can work on a broader range of features.<br><br>The obvious move is a windows port, in which case Klein and maybe an OpenGL/GLUT layer make sense (assuming I fully understand what Klein brings to the party). Any other thoughts?<br><br>>> The other thing is, maybe we should pick a device and make it the main supported platform for self.<br>>> I was thinking about something like this<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/products/touchbook.htm">http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/products/touchbook.htm</a><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> It might be good to focus on one platform, but I don't think it should be a touchpad. Self would have to change a LOT to be useable without a mouse. See<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/07/ballmer-and-microsoft-still-doesnt-get-the-ipad.ars">http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/07/ballmer-and-microsoft-still-doesnt-get-the-ipad.ars</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>for some examples of how an environment has to be designed for touch interaction. This is something Apple's been able to (and had to) put a bazillion person-hours into for the iPad OS.<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Jason<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> ------------------------------------<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Yahoo! Groups Links<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br></p></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br><br><div width="1" style="color: white; clear: both; "></div></div></span></blockquote></div><br></body></html>