[self-interest] Self style using JavaScript prototypal inheritance

[Stephen De Gabrielle]

Hi,

What *should* the 'storage story' be?

I think it's a pain point for programmers and users*, with programmers
jumping out to SQL or some other CRUD[2] and/or query language to do
anything on storage, or using an ORM solution. (I seem to recall microsoft
proposing the filesystem as a database at one point but I don't know how
that turned out)

I see the odd paper addressing it from the OS side, but I don't recall
anything from the PL side of things.

I'm also interested in how parallelism and concurrency could/should be
dealt with in Self?

stephen

[*] I think the OLPC/sugar UI timeline approach to saving documents was a
bold and interesting approach - though I don't know if it scales to the
number of concurrent projects and documents you see in the workplace.
(maybe I'm too much of a chicken to sacrifice my folder hierarchy)
[2] Create, Read, Update, Delete


On Thu, 12 May 2016 at 13:22, David Ungar ungar at me.com [self-interest] <
self-interest at yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>
>
> Good point about storage. Maybe if the project had not been canceled. Or
> if I'd found other funding...
>
> - David (from iPad, typos likely)
>
>
> On May 11, 2016, at 5:14 PM, Russell Allen mail at russell-allen.com
> [self-interest] <self-interest at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> There’s Haskell joke that computation should be the evaluation of typed
> pure functions but that programming should be the destructive updating of
> mutable untyped character strings (i.e. ’source code’).
>
> The equivalent for OO and in particular prototype OO systems I think is
> the idea that computation is live communicating objects but programming is
> writing a static description of those objects at one point in time in some
> sort of descriptive language.
>
> Where Self gets it right is the immediacy of morphic built on the
> flexibility of the Self language and VM. Where it gets it wrong is I think
> the same as where Smalltalk-80 gets it wrong - it’s half-way to an
> Operating System but doesn’t take that last jump. What I mean is not so
> much that Self should have device drivers or be its own kernel but that
> Self doesn’t have a storage story (it uses the filesystem - someone else’s
> story) or a sharing story (any object can metastasise and destroy the whole
> organism)
>
> (This is ignoring the more technical limitations of the current version of
> Self, e.g. 32bit only, doesn’t take advantage of multiple cores etc)
>
> (The other place I get the feeling of not just using a system but living
> within it is the unix command line)
>
> So to make a JS system more ‘successful’ in the Self sense I’d look at Dan
> Ingalls’ Lively Kernel and its offshoots. The aim would be to get users to
> feel like they are building lego or interacting with a live system, and not
> writing an essay, a set of instructions to be obeyed or a architectural
> blueprint.
>
> Russell
>
> On 12 May 2016, at 8:03 AM, David Harris dpharris at telus.net
> [self-interest] <self-interest at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> Success does not need to only be in terms of number of users.  Self is
> successful on many levels.  For example, it has influenced may projects
> including JIT compilers for other languages, and its UI has also influenced
> other systems.
>
> David
>
>
> On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Bystroushaak bystrousak at kitakitsune.org
> [self-interest] <self-interest at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>>  > What it doesn't have is a Self-oriented guide, how to tease out of JS
>>  > the success of Self.
>>
>> Uh eh. I do not intend to offend anyone, but how did you get the
>> impression that Self is successful?
>>
>> Don't get me wrong, I like Self and I am activelly trying to learn it,
>> but as far as I know it is almost dead project with maybe 10 people in
>> world actually still using it outside of academia.
>>
>> Compared to JavaScript, it seems to me that it is totally un-successfull.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>> Posted by: Bystroushaak <bystrousak at kitakitsune.org>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> 
>
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