[self-interest] Re: Improvement proposals

Bernat Romagosa tibabenfortlapalanca at gmail.com
Mon Jun 20 08:44:31 UTC 2016

For what it's worth, I'm European and I think twerking and Self don't go
together well either. Thankfully, anti-patriarchalism is not a North
American trait. Unfortunately, it seems to not be a trait the tech world
shares at all.

Other languages may be more welcoming to the "Wolf of Wall Street" way of
thinking, but Self comes from a different tradition where "haha twerking"
and "lol whores" are not exactly the norm. Can you imagine a blog about
some niche physics school of thought posting Reddit memes?

And then people from "cool tech businesses" wonder why there are no women
in their misogynist paradise...

I can't believe we're having to have this discussion.

2016-06-20 10:23 GMT+02:00 Bystroushaak bystrousak at kitakitsune.org
[self-interest] <self-interest at yahoogroups.com>:

> Dne 20.6.2016 v 01:27 Russell Allen mail at russell-allen.com
> [self-interest] napsal(a):
> > Argh. It’s morning here and I am under-coffeed.
> >
> > This is a multinational mailing list - so far to my knowledge we’ve had
> > Americans, Australians, New Zealanders and Germans giving their input.
> There were also Chinese, Russians, Italians and at least two Czech people.
> > In a professional and welcoming environment, which Self should be, the
> > cultural norm is not to talk about contentious and possibly upsetting
> > topics, or to talk in a way which will make people feel excluded. This
> > includes trying to be aware of other people’s cultural norms as well as
> > your own.
> I fully agree. There is just one problem - you don't know what upsets
> other people until it does.
> For example, now I feel upset, that (north) american moral codex was
> forced on my blogpost and violated my author rights and also violated
> spirit of their own First Amendment to the United States Constitution,
> because they felt that twerking Beyonce gif MAY feel unwelcoming to
> female members and using jokes with dancing and whores is tabu, or
> something.
> If I take this as a precedent, it means that there will be flame all the
> time when someone else write something (north) americans don't like, or
> think is offending. This also means, that user sections in blog or in
> wiki are impossible, at least without BIG list of rules and explanations
> on what is allowed and what not.
> > The precise details of these cultural norms is a fascinating topic which
> > I encourage people to discuss in depth in a warm and friendly manner on
> > some other mailing list which I don’t have to read.
> I feel like this will require a lot more discussion. For example, you
> take for granted that Self should be „professional and welcoming
> environment“. What does this even mean? What if a teenager comes to
> Self, how can anyone expect him to be professional? What about one
> female we really know was here - Albertina Lourenci. She wasn't
> professional not even a little bit (she was architect or something) and
> her long esoteric posts were actually quite annoying to read.
> > Bystroushaak, I know you’re feeling defensive but the simplest way to
> > get back to talking about Self is if you could just edit the blog post
> > to remove the gif and reference to dancing girls. If you can’t, I’m
> > happy to do it for you.
> I did it, because I respect you, and because you are the owner of the
> blog, not because I agree. Also it would be nice, if anyone used the
> word „please“ instead of demands in form „I don't like it, you should
> take it down“.

Bernat Romagosa.
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