[self-interest] Quiet in Self land?

Mayuresh Kathe mayuresh at kathe.in
Tue Sep 16 13:37:57 UTC 2014

yes, i have heard and read about "xanadu".

also, nice to know you have scope for an alternative career path. >:)


On 2014-09-16 18:43, Casey Ransberger casey.obrien.r at gmail.com 
[self-interest] wrote:
> The web is fundamentally broken. I'm not advocating it because it's
> any good, I'm advocating it because it's a way for all of this hard
> work to survive, man!
> If you wanna see a better web? Man, just check out Ted Nelson's work.
> He needs help with it, too, because his vision reaches beyond his own
> capability to make it real as a human being. He's got mostly the idea
> right, he just needs some people to help him make it happen.
> Think about it: two-way web links that cannot break. Attribution by
> design. It's so far ahead of its time and yet it hurts somewhat that
> we haven't actually accomplished even this seminal, early idea yet.
> Anyway, I've always held that people with passion will do better work
> than those without it, regardless of "aptitude." And if Douglas
> Engelbart was here, all I could possibly do is thank him for daring to
> do and write what he did. And maybe a big "thank y ou" hug.
> Also, Mayuresh, when it comes to sex: I would be a professional if
> that was legal in this state. Bwahahaha!
> Casey
> On Sep 16, 2014, at 5:33 AM, "Mayuresh Kathe mayuresh at kathe.in
> [self-interest]" <self-interest at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>> i think we should let go of the notion that the "www" is the only
>> hyperlinking system we should focus on.
>> i believe the "www" is way over-rated.
>> using the web is like engaging in amateur sex.
>> there's lots of loud action,
>> but very little real pleasure,
>> so you end up doing more of it.
>> ~mayuresh
>> ps: apologies if i have offended anyones sensibilities.
>> On 2014-09-16 17:53, Casey Ransberger casey.obrien.r at gmail.com
>> [self-interest] wrote:
>>> Hey Chris. Yeah, Squeak has that same problem too. The browser
>> that
>>> was designed to meet the specifications of NCSA Mosaic. But the
>> code
>>> for these things is virtually useless now.
>>> The browser, and I'm sure that I'm preaching to the converted
>> here,
>>> has absolutely eclipsed the complexity of the operating system
>> that it
>>> really actually needs to run above. Another way of saying this:
>> the
>>> browser has replaced the operating system.
>>> I'm going to go even further with this argument. It isn't
>> comfortable
>>> to talk about and I'm not even comfortable saying it, but:
>> systems
>>> like Smalltalk and Self were designed above all to be used by
>> people.
>>> The web browser as we have it today is an amalgamation of poorly
>>> thought out ideas all jammed together to make something, which in
>> its
>>> millions of lines of total code (I count dependencies,) still
>> isn't as
>>> good at its job as Self or Smalltalk are.
>>> If w e could just magically live in a world where the better
>> ideas
>>> won, we wouldn't even be here. We're here because we have a head
>> full
>>> of better ideas than the status quo, and we want to fix the
>> status
>>> quo.
>>> The bitch of it all is: without a way to give users what they
>> actually
>>> want, (never mind that Facebook is in poor taste) we're basically
>>> dead. A bunch of academics, lamenting what went wrong with
>> personal
>>> computing.
>>> Actually, my "worst idea ever" could really turn the tides. Build
>> the
>>> next Google Chrome using Self. Maybe as an accident the computer
>>> finally gets to be a "bicycle for the mind."
>>> Of course, this is all absolute crazy-talk:)
>>> On Sep 16, 2014, at 4:44 AM, "Chris Double
>> chris.double at double.co.nz
>>> [self-interest]" <self-interest at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>> < blockquote type="cite">
>>> On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 11:39 PM, Casey Ransberger
>>> casey.obrien.r at gmail.com [self-interest]
>>> <self-interest at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Haha, but that defeats the entire point. The browser must be
>>> written in Self. That's how I get to fire my operating system. It
>>> could be Self, it could be Squeak, but if we ever built a web
>> browser,
>>> we could seriously run on nearly bare metal and get by.
>>> There's a somewhat ancient web browser written in Self. See here
>> how
>>> to load/run it:
>>> <bluishcoder.co.nz/2009/07/27/displaying-images-with-self.html
>> [1] [1]>

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