Just noticed that Dave is giving what looks like a really interesting talk at OOPSLA 2003: http://oopsla.acm.org/oopsla2003/files/key-4.html Any hope for a protos workshop this year? Everything seems to be about design patterns or Agile programming. Borrrrrring. :-) Cheers, Steve OSX freeware and shareware: http://www.dekorte.com/downloads.html