[self-interest] Digest Number 278

Tue Jul 23 14:38:03 UTC 2002

Douglas Atique wrote:
Dear Douglas:

Come on! Do you know why prototype based programming has not
taken off?

Because Harold Ossher, Peri Tarr and all those techniques
concerned with separation of concerns associate functions, classes,
procedures and OBJECTS as the tyranny of the mainstream
decomposition! The granularity of these entities is too coarse!
And their ability to interact in all dimensions is limited!
RAndy and Dave reacted to this designing the subjective
version of Self called Us!

What's wrong with the entitties called viewpoints, layers
views and so on? They still do not touch the essence of the
thing! The thingness of things!!!Or the essence of meaning!

Right now I am reading an excellent paper from Jörg Kienzle
and Rachid Guerraoui presented last ECOOP'02 LNCS 2374
entitled
AOP: does it make sense? the case of concurrency and failures
where he claims beautifully : "except for simple academic examples
it is hard and even potentially dangerous to separate concurrency
control and failure management from the actual application.

Concurrency and failures are particularly hard to aspectize because
they are usually part of the phenomenon that objects could simulate.
They are in this sense different than other concerns like for instance
tracing which might be easier to aspectize!"
In essence,  he says the programmer must be aware that the physical
separation does not imply a semantic decoupling!

When I advise you to read my paper entitled Object oriented
software object as a living object presented to rOOts last April
http://www.lsi.usp.br/~lourenci there is no better reading to
emphasize the nature of prototypes and how to build a network
of tighly coupled meanings, that yet enables the programmer to
deal with separation of concerns without destroying this semantic
coupling!
Why is there a crisis? Because neither class-based languages nor
prototype based languages have solved this problem.
Aspect oriented software development and Agile software development
have been trying to solve this problem. Yet they do this insisting
on class-based languages, which I believe will lead nowhere!
Why? A class does not tune with individuality! A class is an oldfashioned
 cultural concept introjected in everyday lives. If people don't start
deconstructing all these concepts that hinder the development of individuality
they cannot likewise discover cognitive processes that will lead you to
see the essence of things, as Schoenberg put forward!
Best wishes
Albertina

> I just want a book that explains the concept and contrasts prototypes
> against classes. A tutorial on how to start programming with
> prototypes when you know classes. Hands-on...
> Regards,
> Douglas
>
> > ---------- Mensagem original -----------
> >
> > De      : self-interest at yahoogroups.com
> > Para    : self-interest at yahoogroups.com
> > Cc      :
> > Data    : 23 Jul 2002 13:44:36 -0000
> > Assunto : [self-interest] Digest Number 278
> >
> > There are 2 messages in this issue.
> >
> > Topics in this digest:
> >
> >       1. Re: Book on programming with prototypes?
> >            From: Thorsten Dittmar <thorsten.dittmar at daedalos.com>
> >       2. the eternity of change!
> >            From: Albertina Lourenci <lourenci at lsi.usp.br>
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________________
> ____
> > ____________________________________________________________________
> ____
> >
> > Message: 1
> >    Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:25:48 +0200
> >    From: Thorsten Dittmar <thorsten.dittmar at daedalos.com>
> > Subject: Re: Book on programming with prototypes?
> >
> > I know some books, that compare different prototype programming lang
> uages.
> > Can you specify a little bit more in detailed what you are looking f
> or?
> >
> >
> > On 7/9/02 7:42 PM, "d_atique" <datique at terra.com.br> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi, all.
> > > I've been away from this list and maybe this was already discussed
> ,
> > > but I'll ask it anyway. Was any book ever published on prototype
> > > programmimg? I mean with a programming/design methodology focus (n
> o
> > > philosophical books, please...).
> > > BTW, I've heard Self 4.1 is evolving and supports MacOS X. I'm gla
> d
> > > to know that.
> > > Regards,
> > > Douglas
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info
> /terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________________
> ____
> > ____________________________________________________________________
> ____
> >
> > Message: 2
> >    Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:50:36 -0300
> >    From: Albertina Lourenci <lourenci at lsi.usp.br>
> > Subject: the eternity of change!
> >
> >
> >
> > Thorsten Dittmar wrote:
> > Dear:
> >
> > > I know some books, that compare different prototype programming la
> nguages.
> > > Can you specify a little bit more in detailed what you are looking
>  for?
> > >
> > > On 7/9/02 7:42 PM, "d_atique" <datique at terra.com.br> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi, all.
> > > > I've been away from this list and maybe this was already discuss
> ed,
> > > > but I'll ask it anyway. Was any book ever published on prototype
> > > > programmimg? I mean with a programming/design methodology focus
> (no
> > > > philosophical books, please...).
> >
> > May I ask what is wrong with philosophical trends? The current crisi
> s
> > in object oriented programming is lack of philosophical knowledge!
> > What sort of philosophical knowledge?
> > At the beginning of the last century, a strong modern movement in ar
> t
> > happened. In music, for example the dodecaphonist Schoenberg advised
> :
> > Let the pupil learn the laws and effects of tonality just as if they
>  still
> > prevailed, but let him know of the tendencies  that are leading towa
> rd
> > their annulment. Let him know that the conditions leading to the dis
> solution
> > of the system are inherent in the conditions upon which it is establ
> ished.
> > Let him know that every livng thing has within it that which changes
> , develops,
> > and destroys it. Life and death are both equally present in the embr
> yo. What lies
> > between is time. Nothing intrinsic, that is: merely a dimension, whi
> ch is, however
> > necessarily consumated. Let the pupil learn by this example to recog
> nize what is
> > eternal: change and what is temporal: being (das Bestehen). Thus he
> will come to
> > the conclusion that much of what has been considered aesthetically f
> undamental,
> > that is, necessary to beauty, is by no means always rooted in the na
> ture of
> > things,  that the imperfection of our senses drives us to those comp
> romises through
> > which we achieve order. For order is not demanded by the object, but
>  by the
> > subject!!!Schoenberg, A. Theory of Harmony page 29!
> > Applying this to computer science: Doesn't  the introduction of subj
> ect oriented
> > programming exactly reproduce the behaviour described by Schoenberg?
> > The precise paper from Roger T. Alexander and Jim Bieman entitled Ch
> allenges of
> > Aspect oriented technology presented at the 2002 ICSE Workshop in So
> ftware
> > Quality held in May Orlando Florida  deconstructs this subjectivism
> beautifully
> > and brings to the fore the essence of the thing!
> > Who cares about this? By the negative mood of the paper even Roger a
> nd Jim
> > don't!
> > However semioticians, the experts in modeling care (among others cal
> led artists)
> > And exactly my paper presented at rOOts  April 2002 Bergen tells us
> how
> > to deal with the essence of meaning! What's the problem here?
> > http://www.lsi.usp.br/~lourenci
> > It begins with
> > the foundations of things specific to the domain model -
>  here sustainable
> > cities -
>  how to generate them from the first cell, I mean the building?
> > And of course nobody cares about this, because everybody is homeless
>  and lives
> > ón the streets ( I am being cynical!!) Sorry, only half of the popul
> ation is
> > homeless!
> > And those don't have access to schools!
> Hence the whole mankind has to put up
> > with the subjectivism of those who have homes!!!
> And don't care if their own children
> >
> > soon will not have homes!!!
> >
> > But anyhow incredibly another paper was published at last ECOOP'02 h
> eld in
> > Malaga. Design patterns as signs from James Noble and Robert Biddle!
> > Wonderful now we can contrast papers interested in prototypes and as
> pects
> > something like the subjective version from SElf called Us and class-
> based
> > languages and patterns! AS soon as I read it, I hope we can start a
> discussion!
> > ANyhow I want to congratulate Roger and Jim for their courage to dec
> onstruct
> > what can be better and now I hope they pluck up courage to do better
>  programming
> > artifacts!
> > Best wishes
> > Albertina
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > > BTW, I've heard Self 4.1 is evolving and supports MacOS X. I'm g
> lad
> > > > to know that.
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Douglas
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/in
> fo/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info
> /terms/
> > >
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> > ____________________________________________________________________
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> >
> >
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