[self-interest] On "Meta," with a trick question at the end.
Albertina Lourenci
lourenci at lsi.usp.br
Wed Jan 17 14:59:02 UTC 2001
David Ungar wrote:
> Well....if Randy is going to jump here, I could say that I agree with
> him. It is all about
> your purpose. For Self, we picked a set of things that were useful in
> regular programs and
> conceivably implementable, and encapsulation-respectiing, based on
> our idea of what
> object-oriented programming could be.
>
> Then there was a bunch of other stuff that needed to be there for the
> programming environment,
> that took an object's destiny away from it. That seemed like the meta
> stuff and went into the mirrors.
>
So the only concern of Self with metaprogramming sounds like this.
This makes reflection the same as metaprogramming right?
What about Self/R? How will be reflection decisively made
explicit here?
It seems to me that the Self language happens! Indeed a happy
event! Similar to how Beethoven reacted to a lady who asked him
to explain his sonata. He simply played it again!
A smile,
Albertina
>
> - Dave
>
> At 4:23 PM -0800 1/16/01, Randy Smith wrote:
> >Don't forget to look at the trick question at the end
> >of this note. Meanwhile....
> >
> >
> >> > > what is meta-programming? >
> >
> >Jecel gave 3 good examples, including a Self program.
> >
> >> > This program is *about* a program -
> >
> >..and this to me is the key word: "about." A meta discussion
> >is about a discussion. A meta program is about a program. A
> >meta X is about an X.
> >
> >Now one must use some interpretive framework to decide what
> >something is about or even if it is about anything! So the
> >question of the degree to which something is meta is one of
> >interpretation. In other words, rational people may disagree
> >about the metaness of some object.
> >
> >For example, information about the representation of an object
> >is normally considered meta. The number of slots, the names of
> >the slots and so forth. Now consider: is the size of a
> >collection a meta notion? It does not depend on the
> >representation of the collection, and is at times something you
> >want to know when working with the thing. Hence some might
> >consider a collection's size a rather everyday, non-meta
> >concept. Others might say it is meta, as it is clearly about
> >the collection. Obviously in Self we take the former view, and
> >let you directly ask the object for its size (in Self we use
> >mirrors for the meta stuff, like slot manipulations).
> >
> >So the choice of trying to put "meta" aspects into a special
> >world of mirrors is a choice to confront a mess of vague and
> >arguable decisions. However, we figured it was a practical
> >factoring, even if it was an uncharacteristically non-Self-like
> >to introduce unneeded distinctions.
> >
> >Hey, how about the metaness of the following, which refers to
> >itself and is therefore meta? "If this sentence is true, it is
> >not meta, otherwise it is meta."
> >
> >Is it an empty trick or does it reveal a problem with the
> >meta/nonmeta distinction?
> >
> >--Randy
>
> --
>
> David Ungar
> Sun Microsystems Laboratories
> (650) 336-2618
--
.----------------------------------------------------------.
| Albertina Lourenci |
| PhD in Architecture and Urbanism |
| post-doctorate researcher |
| Laboratory of Integrated Systems University of Sao Paulo |
| Avenida Professor Luciano Gualberto, 158 Travessa 3 |
| CEP: 05508-900 |
| Sao Paulo Sao Paulo State Brazil |
| Voice: +55 011 818 5254 |
| Fax: +55 11 211 4574 |
.----------------------------------------------------------.
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