[self-interest] languages

Brian Rice water at tscnet.com
Mon Jan 8 18:29:26 UTC 2001

>Jecel Assumpcao Jr wrote:
>>On Sun, 07 Jan 2001, J Osako wrote:
>>>  At 15:54 01/07/2001 -0800, you wrote:
>>>  >Interesting. After the last rebuke, I came to the opposite conclusion -
>>>  >that this list, being specifically about Self, should be primarily about
>>>  >Self. It also occured to me that there might be a need for a general
>>>  >discussion group on 'new' languages, Self-like or not. To this end, I have
>>>  >created a new eGroups list, MFTL.
>>>  In accordance with The Law of the Prophet Murphy, it was only after I set
>>>  up MFTL that I learned that there already is an eGroups list for this sort
>>>  of thing, called Language-Wars. Damn.
>>What does MFTL mean? Are you going to continue with this group or use
>>Language-Wars instead?
>>I agree that this shouldn't become a general language discussion list,
>>but while the traffic is still low I see no problems with some
>>information on Self-like languages being posted here. If someone feels
>>differently, please say so.
>Well, what I really think is that computer science is rather looking like
>a Babel Tower. When I joined  the Workshop of the PHD students
>in OO programming at ECOOP'97, my colleagues were already
>feeling this phenomenon..Their proposal or at least of some
>  there was that we should restrict the proliferation of new languages.
>No more languages...Of course I found and find this proposal
>However reading papers about reflection right now, I start feeling
>things are like Babel Tower. To read a single paper I have to know
>all about all types of patterns (architectural, design and so on)
>all about reflection(!!!), distributed systems, OO, media space
>and so on...Finally after a great effort I  am managing to understand
>what this intriguing paper is about. And of course I still do not
>know which language will be used for implementation....
>Maybe there should be a list to try to integrate all these
>different computational trends.
>For example suddenly I discovered that a user interface is
>a virtual machine!!!!That the user can program the set of
>instructions of programmable processors and so on ...
>I do not go crazy because I am an architect and at least
>for the moment although I am dependent thoroughly on
>computer science, the integration of my knowledge based
>system can be accomplished at a design level before
>proceeding to implementation.
>ANyhow all this is very frustrating. I would appreciate
>more integrative approaches in computer science.

<PLUG TYPE="shameless"><A HREF="http://www.tunes.org">The TUNES 

Seriously, this is what I am working on (Jecel also participates when 
he can). The project is unfunded (I have even had to drop out of 
school for a few years to avoid "brainwashing"), but a few people 
(mostly Faré and I) have accomplished a lot of headway. Unfortunately 
because we have no formal support from any institutions (at the 
moment), our research efforts have been hampered by a perceived lack 
of a precise plan.

Because of this, our mailing list has also over the years picked up a 
lot of this Babel effect (I avoided it for years for this reason), 
even as our goal is unification (be careful on how you interpret 

I've said too much already.

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