complex concepts

Albertina Lourenci lourenci at
Thu Nov 23 12:33:27 UTC 2000

David Ungar wrote:
Hi Dave:

Can't you share your impressions with us? Where will you present
the panel?
For me your opinion is precious because you were one of  the
researchers concerned with the "thingness of the things" that
I analysed in my last monograph "The unfolding and modeling
of artistic consciousness in the infoera".  The others were
the abstract expressionist plastic artist Jackson Pollock,
Robert Rauschenberg,  his art is made out of the garbage he
collected in the streets in New York, the poet RAiner Maria
Rilke, Martin Heidegger, Charles Saunders Peirce,  Douglas
Hofstadter, Maurits C. Escher (with an introduction based on
Leibniz, he is concerned with the search for infinite like Escher,
Escher expressed these concerns in his xylogravures), Douglas
Hofstadter, concerned with modeling consciousness,  Hans
Georg Gadamer, the hermeneutic philosopher, Christopher
Alexander , Maturana and Varela and DAvid Ungar and
the Self community!!



> I actually did go through all the patterns in the GOF book, in
> preparation for my recent panel.
> In particular, only one of the object-creation patterns seemed legit to me.
> - Dave
> At 12:02 AM +0000 11/23/00, Bharat Bedia wrote:
> >--- In self-interest at, Jecel Assumpcao Jr <jecel at m...>
> >wrote:
> >>  Me too. I was attracted to the practical side of Self's "exploratory
> >>  programming" style. Since you were asking about "analysis", I
> >thought
> >>  you meant things like Booch and UML and other things that I am not
> >>  familiar with, which is why I made no comment.
> >When i first got Self to work on my solaris machine I found it very
> >very cool. I very much enjoyed the freedom & exploratory style. But
> >like the old "Lord of the Rings" game on Commodore64 you can only
> >explore so much then you have to solve your mission objective!
> >Unfortunately, I don't have access to a Sun computer anymore so I
> >can't run Self :-(
> >
> >Everybody carries out some element of analysis. Some people call it
> >thinking others call it UML ;-) However, you can "analyse" until the
> >project manager screams at you then you must develop and code. I was
> >hoping to hear about various strategies and modelling techniques
> >people use to :
> >a. model the problem domain, and
> >b. convert the model into an application
> >
> >(This doesn't have to be in Self. Perhaps someone can point me to a
> >notation for describing prototypical systems - analogous to UML for
> >OO systems?)
> >
> >So for example in the real world, things change and perhaps even in
> >the evolutionary exploratory Self environment, you may get
> >brittleness in the "older" parts of the application. Part of the
> >analysis is to try and perceive the potential for change and so
> >design in the flexibility. I was wondering what techniques people had
> >used to pre-empt these issues (eg. inflexibility) in the prototypical
> >world?
> >
> >>  It would be very interesting to go through all the patterns in the
> >>  "Design Patterns" book (which I have just read) and look at them
> >from
> >>  the viewpoint of a prototype based language. I'll try to do so
> >later,
> >Now I would be most interested on that!
> >
> >
> >
> --
>      David Ungar
>      Sun Microsystems Laboratories
>      (650) 336-2618

| Albertina Lourenci                                       |
| PhD  in Architecture and Urbanism                        |
| post-doctorate researcher                                |
| Laboratory of Integrated Systems University of Sao Paulo |
| Avenida Professor Luciano Gualberto, 158 Travessa 3      |
| CEP: 05508-900                                           |
| Sao Paulo Sao Paulo State Brazil                         |
| Voice: +55 011 818 5254                                  |
| Fax: +55 11 211 4574                                     |

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