Hello,
I'm interested in making a number of improvements/changes to Self, not for any particular commercial motive but out of general interest in Self and its ideas.
A good starting point for this would be getting the Self VM working properly on linux and Windows.
Unfortunately, I'm not a C++ person, and the learning curve is a bit too steep and my time too limited to do it myself.
What I was wondering was whether anyone on this list knew any students who would be interested in doing the porting work. I would be prepared to put some money towards the effort of porting if it would help, though obviously my budget is pretty limited. Everything done would be released under the same open source licence as the rest of Self.
I'm open to any alternative ideas on how to get there too!
Best wishes,
Russell
Why not build a Self interpreter on the .Net Dynamic Language Runtime? Sure, the performance won't be as good as native but you'll get more portability in the long term.
Jeff.
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From: self-interest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:self-interest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Russell Allen Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 5:25 AM To: Self Mailing List Subject: [self-interest] Getting someone to port Self
Hello,
I'm interested in making a number of improvements/changes to Self, not for any particular commercial motive but out of general interest in Self and its ideas.
A good starting point for this would be getting the Self VM working properly on linux and Windows.
Unfortunately, I'm not a C++ person, and the learning curve is a bit too steep and my time too limited to do it myself.
What I was wondering was whether anyone on this list knew any students who would be interested in doing the porting work. I would be prepared to put some money towards the effort of porting if it would help, though obviously my budget is pretty limited. Everything done would be released under the same open source licence as the rest of Self.
I'm open to any alternative ideas on how to get there too!
Best wishes,
Russell
Hi Jeff,
There have been attempts to get Self running on the JVM (which I am more familiar with since it is open source and cross platform); as you indicated, it seems that you pay a speed price for being on a VM that doesn't quite fit but on the other hand should be potentially able to take advantage of a well written VM and lots of premade libraries. Certainly jython, jRuby and Groovy seem to show it could be done...
Do you see any advantages of .Net over the JVM?
Russell
On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 05:56:00 +1000, Jeff Brown jeff.brown@gmail.com wrote:
Why not build a Self interpreter on the .Net Dynamic Language Runtime? Sure, the performance won't be as good as native but you'll get more portability in the long term. Jeff.
From: self-interest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:self-interest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Russell Allen Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 5:25 AM To: Self Mailing List Subject: [self-interest] Getting someone to port Self
Hello,
I'm interested in making a number of improvements/changes to Self, not for any particular commercial motive but out of general interest in Self and its ideas.
A good starting point for this would be getting the Self VM working properly on linux and Windows.
Unfortunately, I'm not a C++ person, and the learning curve is a bit too steep and my time too limited to do it myself.
What I was wondering was whether anyone on this list knew any students who would be interested in doing the porting work. I would be prepared to put some money towards the effort of porting if it would help, though obviously my budget is pretty limited. Everything done would be released under the same open source licence as the rest of Self.
I'm open to any alternative ideas on how to get there too!
Best wishes,
Russell
The DLR (the layer on the CLR designed for dynamic languages) adds support for dynamic languages and packages up some of the concerns, which on the JVM you would need to roll yourself. The underlying CLR has a few more hooks for dynamic languages than does the JVM. In J2EE 7 they have said they will be adding a new op-code to better support dynamic language dispatch, which may even the field in terms of the basic VM support.
In any case you may find a much better fit with the new javascript VMs that are coming out of webkit and FireFox. They are very high performance, and do not have the strong typing basis that both the JVM and CLR assume. Other than syntax javascript is very compatible with self in its concepts.
Michael
On Sep 21, 2008, at 3:15 AM, Russell Allen wrote:
Hi Jeff,
There have been attempts to get Self running on the JVM (which I am more familiar with since it is open source and cross platform); as you indicated, it seems that you pay a speed price for being on a VM that doesn't quite fit but on the other hand should be potentially able to take advantage of a well written VM and lots of premade libraries. Certainly jython, jRuby and Groovy seem to show it could be done...
Do you see any advantages of .Net over the JVM?
Russell
On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 05:56:00 +1000, Jeff Brown jeff.brown@gmail.com wrote:
Why not build a Self interpreter on the .Net Dynamic Language Runtime? Sure, the performance won't be as good as native but you'll get more portability in the long term. Jeff.
From: self-interest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:self-interest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Russell Allen Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 5:25 AM To: Self Mailing List Subject: [self-interest] Getting someone to port Self
Hello,
I'm interested in making a number of improvements/changes to Self, not for any particular commercial motive but out of general interest in Self and its ideas.
A good starting point for this would be getting the Self VM working properly on linux and Windows.
Unfortunately, I'm not a C++ person, and the learning curve is a bit too steep and my time too limited to do it myself.
What I was wondering was whether anyone on this list knew any students who would be interested in doing the porting work. I would be prepared to put some money towards the effort of porting if it would help, though obviously my budget is pretty limited. Everything done would be released under the same open source licence as the rest of Self.
I'm open to any alternative ideas on how to get there too!
Best wishes,
Russell
Yahoo! Groups Links
On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 10:03:20AM -0700, Michael Latta wrote:
In any case you may find a much better fit with the new javascript VMs that are coming out of webkit and FireFox. They are very high performance, and do not have the strong typing basis that both the JVM and CLR assume. Other than syntax javascript is very compatible with self in its concepts.
Speaking of JavaScript, did anyone notice the reference to Self in the design docs for V8? V8 is the new JavaScript engine that Google wrote for Chrome. See http://code.google.com/apis/v8/design.html . :-) Hmmm. V8 is Open Source, and is portable to a number of platforms. It's pulling ideas from Self in order to get Self-like speeds in a prototyped language. Might be a good match . . .
--Toby Ovod-everett
Javascript is still single-threaded isn't it? Or has V8 changed that?
Russell
On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:49:48 +1000, Toby Ovod-Everett toby@ovod-everett.org wrote:
On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 10:03:20AM -0700, Michael Latta wrote:
In any case you may find a much better fit with the new javascript VMs that are coming out of webkit and FireFox. They are very high performance, and do not have the strong typing basis that both the JVM and CLR assume. Other than syntax javascript is very compatible with self in its concepts.
Speaking of JavaScript, did anyone notice the reference to Self in the design docs for V8? V8 is the new JavaScript engine that Google wrote for Chrome. See http://code.google.com/apis/v8/design.html . :-) Hmmm. V8 is Open Source, and is portable to a number of platforms. It's pulling ideas from Self in order to get Self-like speeds in a prototyped language. Might be a good match . . .
--Toby Ovod-everett
On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 5:18 PM, Russell Allen mail@russell-allen.com wrote:
Javascript is still single-threaded isn't it? Or has V8 changed that?
V8 supports running JavaScript on multiple threads, but not at the same time. So a script running on one thread will pause while a script is running on another. The switching between running threads is done by explicit yield calls (by the JavaScript engine).
Relevant thread: http://groups.google.com/group/v8-users/browse_thread/thread/86fe6c3922d33b97/6f8919f6be7cf6e8
Chris. -- http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz
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